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Thread: After 107 years in Milwaukee, Harley could leave

  1. #41
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    Re: After 107 years in Milwaukee, Harley could leave

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    every contract between labor and management is one which has been negotiated by and signed off on by management? Quite correct.
    why would management agree to terms which are detrimental to the viability of the company ... a reasonable person might ask ... [
    to answer that rhetorical question, it would be because management was incompetent and/or because management was willing to cave in order to realize short term benefits while recognizing they probably would not be there long term to face the down side of their contracted agreement
    a non-rhetorical question: why is that the union's fault?
    Management gives in to union pressure, simply because management faced with the inevitability of a strike that could if prolonged be the cause of a company having to close down.
    Union when they were initially started were there to protect workforce from harsh unfair practices.
    Conditions such as were prevalent in those times no longer apply, in many instances Legislation protects workforce.
    Unions nowadays are little more than a form of Mafia Protection racket.
    If they are permitted to carry sway over otherwise successful businesses, all that will happen is that those businesses will eiither close down or move overseas.
    The only other option is for some Corrupt Government to step in and take over that business and install Union as management, hey guess what, no outrageous demands are made of that business again.
    What I have described is Communism, compulsory takeover of businesses deemed to important to be allowed to fail.
    Of course your response would be that this cannot happen in the USA.
    My response would be look at Chrysler and GM.

  2. #42
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    Re: After 107 years in Milwaukee, Harley could leave

    Quote Originally Posted by jujuman13 View Post
    Management gives in to union pressure, simply because management faced with the inevitability of a strike that could if prolonged be the cause of a company having to close down.
    The management should also know that giving too much away can sink the business. Labor knows that as well so demands they make that are unreasonable may cost business and jobs.

    I'm less inclined to believe that unions would actively make choices they knew would sink a business and more inclined to believe that management tends to exaggerate the impact unions and their demands have on the bottom line.

    Union when they were initially started were there to protect workforce from harsh unfair practices.
    Conditions such as were prevalent in those times no longer apply, in many instances Legislation protects workforce.
    Often, this legislation comes about with the resources and effort of the labor unions. Also consider that legislation is not always enough. Unions have legal and fiscal resources to support workers and help them work as a unified front for their interests.

    Unions nowadays are little more than a form of Mafia Protection racket.
    If they are permitted to carry sway over otherwise successful businesses, all that will happen is that those businesses will eiither close down or move overseas.
    The only other option is for some Corrupt Government to step in and take over that business and install Union as management, hey guess what, no outrageous demands are made of that business again.
    I agree that many modern unions have lost their way and lost sight of what their actual responsibility is, but I hardly see that as a reason to abandon the concept of unions altogether. After all, we are all intimately familiar with the multitude of legal infractions that corporations commit and the power they wield, why do we not disband them? And what unions do is (usually) legal.

    Unions still have their place in our society but I would definitely not be against the federal government limiting the sphere of influence unions are allowed to wield. See Wal-Mart for an example of a large workplace and it's conditions as a result of a lack of representation.

    What I have described is Communism, compulsory takeover of businesses deemed to important to be allowed to fail.
    Of course your response would be that this cannot happen in the USA.
    My response would be look at Chrysler and GM.
    What you're describing is McCarthyist paranoia and it's getting quite boring.
    Last edited by Hoplite; 08-06-10 at 02:29 AM.
    I'm Done

    See my last post

  3. #43
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    Re: After 107 years in Milwaukee, Harley could leave

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    this assessment was conducted 18 months ago. But it appears to give credence to rumblings that about 50% of the paper hd financed is in some degree of default. Reportedly, significant numbers of repo'd bikes are being warehoused to try to maintain vehicle/brand value:
    [bold emphasis added by bubba to compare and contrast employee focused results to management caused results]
    text-fitch cuts harley-davidson issuer default rating | reuters
    But ZOMG the unions r at fault see!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:

    Quote Originally Posted by jujuman
    management gives in to union pressure, simply because management faced with the inevitability of a strike that could if prolonged be the cause of a company having to close down.
    Union when they were initially started were there to protect workforce from harsh unfair practices.
    Conditions such as were prevalent in those times no longer apply, in many instances legislation protects workforce.
    Unions nowadays are little more than a form of mafia protection racket.
    If they are permitted to carry sway over otherwise successful businesses, all that will happen is that those businesses will eiither close down or move overseas.
    The only other option is for some corrupt government to step in and take over that business and install union as management, hey guess what, no outrageous demands are made of that business again.
    What i have described is communism, compulsory takeover of businesses deemed to important to be allowed to fail.
    Of course your response would be that this cannot happen in the usa.
    My response would be look at chrysler and gm.
    lol
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

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    Re: After 107 years in Milwaukee, Harley could leave

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    You have good taste Rev.
    If I had the cash, I'd def get a BMW touring bike.

    I'm a bit of a Euro fag when it comes to two wheelers and prefer scooters.


    I don't like touring bikes very much. Too much restriction on how far you can push those things.


    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: After 107 years in Milwaukee, Harley could leave

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    (Q) What do German Shepherds and Harleys have in common?

    (A) They both like to ride in back of pickups.

  6. #46
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    Re: After 107 years in Milwaukee, Harley could leave

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    I don't like touring bikes very much. Too much restriction on how far you can push those things.


    I'm in it for the cruise, not much else.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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    Re: After 107 years in Milwaukee, Harley could leave

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    I'm in it for the cruise, not much else.



    Me too! I just go a little faster.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

  8. #48
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    Re: After 107 years in Milwaukee, Harley could leave

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    Me too! I just go a little faster.


    I raced a truck with a 70cc scooter once.
    It was sad.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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    Re: After 107 years in Milwaukee, Harley could leave

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post


    I raced a truck with a 70cc scooter once.
    It was sad.


    were folks behind you beeping cause you all were going to slow?


    I did 1000 miles on an sv650 in WV two years ago in 5 days.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

  10. #50
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    Re: After 107 years in Milwaukee, Harley could leave

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    were folks behind you beeping cause you all were going to slow?
    I was beating him at first because it gears up pretty fast but it didn't take long for him to beat my 50mph top speed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    I did 1000 miles on an sv650 in WV two years ago in 5 days.
    Did you apply to get the Iron Butt patch?
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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