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Thread: After 107 years in Milwaukee, Harley could leave

  1. #31
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    Re: After 107 years in Milwaukee, Harley could leave

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    I don't know. I live in a non-union state, and I negotiate my own employment contractual arrangements.
    then clearly you appreciate the benefit of employees having an opportunity to negotiate their conditions of employment

    I wouldn't know anything about sucking the teet of a union.
    since you have those other sucking skills, we will give you a pass on this one
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Re: After 107 years in Milwaukee, Harley could leave

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    You have good taste Rev.
    If I had the cash, I'd def get a BMW touring bike.

    I'm a bit of a Euro fag when it comes to two wheelers and prefer scooters.
    Aint nothin faggy about the Aprilla 850 Mana, baby! And I have a Burgman 650 that will (and has) beat any Harley off the line. And a trunk to carry a few sixers? Puleeeeeese...

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    Re: After 107 years in Milwaukee, Harley could leave

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    then clearly you appreciate the benefit of employees having an opportunity to negotiate their conditions of employment


    since you have those other sucking skills, we will give you a pass on this one
    Sure...those unions have negotiated a SAAAWEEEEEEET deal for all those auto workers...right?

  4. #34
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    Re: After 107 years in Milwaukee, Harley could leave

    Being a resident of Milwaukee I've heard a bit about this, and it has little to do with "greedy unions" actually. Harley has been looking to cut its budget in its operations in Milwaukee to the tune of around $50 million, and the workers have already taken significant cuts. So to blame the unions is just partisan hackery.

    Oh, and I can't stand Harley's. If you're going to get a bike then get a real ride and build it yourself for $5000, don't buy a $30,000 piece of **** from Harley. Harley's older stuff was really good, and is still highly regarded by true motorcycle enthusiasts, but the stuff they make now is absolute garbage.

    EDIT: This has also been going on for ages, and I'm sick of hearing about it. It's not news unless they actually do it.
    Last edited by Khayembii Communique; 08-05-10 at 09:09 PM.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

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    Re: After 107 years in Milwaukee, Harley could leave

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post

    EDIT: This has also been going on for ages, and I'm sick of hearing about it. It's not news unless they actually do it.
    Yeah, it's been talked about for quite a few years but nothing has come to fruition, although they have closed up a few places up north IIRC.
    "Loyalty only matters when there's a hundred reasons not to be-" Gen. Mattis

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    Re: After 107 years in Milwaukee, Harley could leave

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Sure...those unions have negotiated a SAAAWEEEEEEET deal for all those auto workers...right?
    glad you agree. so, why the opposition to unions?
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

  7. #37
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    Re: After 107 years in Milwaukee, Harley could leave

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    glad you agree. so, why the opposition to unions?
    Because they have become partisan political whores that use their members; not employee representatives.

    Thats the short answer...

    I can go into many anecdotal stories of where the electrical unions have ****ed over their members...where federal union reps have totally ****ed over both sides...the tendency to make it impossible to fire piece of **** workers or ignore criminal behaviors...etc etc etc...but then Im sur eyou would have GREAT stories of how wonderful and effective the unions are. Meanwhile...the auto industry is pretty much GONE...most industrial jobs are gone...and the union has played a part in that.

    Make no mistake...I see the value in the early formation of unions. But frankly...their usefulness has pretty much been played out. I know union stewards on military installations that do not **** all all day long except smoke and send out mailings...and when their members come for help they are ignored but if the installation wants to reconfigure an office area...stop the ****ing presses...we have to have an investigation, inspection...cant do it because they didnt get adequate notice, changing phone numbers represents a hardship to their workers...on and on and on...

  8. #38
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    Re: After 107 years in Milwaukee, Harley could leave

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Regarding Harley owners...I LOVE the rugged "individualist"...the anti-societal outcast attitude...the rebel...the indendent free thinking, free wheeling individuals...all of them...dressed alike in their Harley Davidson boots, scarves, hats, belt buckles, undies, t shirts, wallets, and chains. They dont conform to no damn society pressures!

    I cannot think of any other company that has bennefited more from its copyright. As stated about the average HD owner will have a complete head to toe dressing with the HD emblem. They will also have other HD merchandise in their homes.
    To me the painting of one's self with the HD emblem can only be topped by a NASCAR driver with all his sponsors plastered over his jumpsuit.

    Am just surprized that Harley hasn't come out with a Harley pickup to carry the bikes in.

    Years back riding my Kawasaki 1500 to Sturgis I passed another biker with a tee shirt that had on its back " Nice trailer pussy". Those of you ride will understand that shirt.

  9. #39
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    Re: After 107 years in Milwaukee, Harley could leave

    Quote Originally Posted by Crosscheck View Post
    I cannot think of any other company that has bennefited more from its copyright. As stated about the average HD owner will have a complete head to toe dressing with the HD emblem. They will also have other HD merchandise in their homes.
    To me the painting of one's self with the HD emblem can only be topped by a NASCAR driver with all his sponsors plastered over his jumpsuit.

    Am just surprized that Harley hasn't come out with a Harley pickup to carry the bikes in.

    Years back riding my Kawasaki 1500 to Sturgis I passed another biker with a tee shirt that had on its back " Nice trailer pussy". Those of you ride will understand that shirt.
    Pssh they have had those.

    Road Test Review: 2010 Ford Harley-Davidson F-150 - PickupTrucks.com News
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: After 107 years in Milwaukee, Harley could leave

    this assessment was conducted 18 months ago. but it appears to give credence to rumblings that about 50% of the paper HD financed is in some degree of default. reportedly, significant numbers of repo'd bikes are being warehoused to try to maintain vehicle/brand value:
    Feb 12 - Fitch Ratings has downgraded Harley-Davidson Inc. (NYSE: HOG) and HOG's 100% owned subsidiary, Harley-Davidson Financial Services, Inc. (HDFS) as
    listed below. ...
    The Rating Outlook on all the ratings is Negative. Fitch's actions affect
    approximately $3.2 billion of debt at HDFS and $782 million of debt at HOG. Due
    to the existence of a support agreement and demonstrated support by the parent,
    HDFS's ratings are linked to those of HOG.

    The rating actions are primarily related to developments at HDFS, including
    a change in funding profile, which has led to increased borrowing costs,
    deteriorating asset quality performance, and reduced operating performance.

    The downgrades also reflect a reduced outlook for 2009 sales and margins at
    HOG (the manufacturing operations) and higher cash outlays related to pension
    and restructuring charges.

    The Negative Outlook reflects the weak economic environment, which could
    lead to further restructuring actions at HOG if volumes come under additional
    pressure; cash outlays related to the company's pension plans in 2009 and 2010,
    and dealer profitability.

    In addition, the deteriorating economic environment will continue to
    pressure consumers and could lead to negative asset quality performance beyond
    current expectations at HDFS, which could affect profitability through
    additional mark to market losses on loans held for sale, retained interest
    impairments, and/or increased provisioning.
    ...
    The 'A-' rating reflects HOG's brand strength, distribution network, solid
    cash generation from its manufacturing operations, good manufacturing operating
    margins
    , and expanding international presence.
    ...
    Fitch is also concerned with HDFS's long-term alternatives
    to fund originations if the capital markets environment remains status quo.
    Based on HDFS's historical use of the asset backed securities market ($2.5
    billion in 2007, $540 million in 2008), and lower retail origination levels in
    2009, Fitch believes HDFS needs approximately $1 billion in financing in 2009
    in addition to its available revolving credit facilities to replace
    securitization funding used historically.

    This funding would allow HDFS to maintain its historical funding volume of
    retail U.S. sales at approximately 53%. The company made significant progress
    toward the funding goal when HOG issued $600 million in notes last week,
    although the 15% coupon will pressure margins in HDFS's operation. Fitch will
    look for HDFS to continue to develop and execute contingency funding plans to
    meet funding requirements for 2009 and beyond on a cost-effective basis.

    If HDFS is unable to obtain all or part of the needed funding, HOG's
    motorcycle sales could come under additional pressure if HOG's retail customers
    are unable to find alternative financing sources.
    ...
    Fitch believes HDFS's operating performance will continue to trend weaker
    due to the economic and capital markets environment, manifesting itself in
    higher provision expenses, charge-offs, and funding costs over the near- to
    intermediate-term, with the potential for further retained interest impairments
    and additional mark-to-market write-downs on loans held for sale.
    Fitch assumes
    that HDFS's underlying collateral is more discretionary in nature and would
    rank well below other assets in terms of priority of payment.
    ...
    In 2008, total Harley-Davidson brand motorcycles shipments decreased 27,140
    units or 8.2% to 303,479 bikes, while retail sales decreased 24,005 units or
    7.1% to 313,769 units, indicating seasonally adjusted dealer inventories have
    decreased. ...
    [bold emphasis added by bubba to compare and contrast employee focused results to management caused results]
    TEXT-Fitch cuts Harley-Davidson issuer default rating | Reuters
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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