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California gay marriage ban overturned: report

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I have answered the question. I also answered it earlier in this thread. I would guess that homosexuals practice anal sex more often than heterosexuals. Now, this does not draw the conclusion that you want it to.

Finally. And of course it does since it is proven anal sex has a larger risk factor for HIV than any other. Thank you for finally answering it.

So... answer it.

And yes having anal sex regardless of who you are increases the risk. And if you use it more than any other group like gay men then the risk factor is higher.

Perhaps I can break it down a little easier for you.

If you have two groups of people who drive and one group drives 30 miles per hour say 65% of the time and the other 35% of the time they drive 90 and you compare it to another group that drives 90 miles per hour 95% or 100% of the time the second group is far more likely to be involved in a deadly accident than the first group.

See how easy that is?
 
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You apparently missed the word "sometimes" in the section you highlighted.

How embarrassing.

You apparently didn't notice that there was nothing about a state of being in any of the definitions, nor did it offer anything other than behaviors. How embarrassing.
 
Nice try again CC. There is no cause anywhere in any definition you have in front of you. None.

To pretend anal sex is not a measurable characteristic of gay men when it is their primary sexual position when having sex is really amusing if not so painfaully sad. Since on average gay men DO have sex and when they do it IS anal sex and they being the group that practices it the most it is a risk factor NOT a cause.

Thats why risk factor doesn't have cause anywhere in its defintion. You've lost that argument pages ago yet you still hang onto it. Amazing.

Poor tex. Failing again. Let's consider this. A behavior CAN be a risk factor. An orientation cannot. Being a homosexual is NOT a risk factor for HIV. Having anal sex is a risk factor for HIV. This is the crux of why Hicup was wrong, and when confronted, refused to acknowledge it. Now, I know that you do not understand the difference between behavior and orientation... you've proven this scores of times. But you cannot refute that anal sex is a risk factor, and therefore CAN cause HIV. Homosexuality in and of itself is NOT a risk factor and in and of itself CANNOT cause HIV.
 
Finally. And of course it does since it is proven anal sex has a larger risk factor for HIV than any other. Thank you for finally answering it.

All it proves is that anal sex is a risk factor for causing HIV.



And yes having anal sex regardless of who you are increases the risk.

Thank you.

And if you use it more than any other group like gay men then the risk factor is higher.

No. If ANY individual uses anal sex more often, their risk factor is higher. Being homosexual does not mean you will engage in anal sex. Again, there is NO CAUSATION and no direct link. Homosexuality is NOT a behavior.

Perhaps I can break it down a little easier for you.

If you have two groups of people who drive and one group drives 30 miles per hour say 65% of the time and the other 35% of the time they drive 90 and you compare it to another group that drives 90 miles per hour 95% or 100% of the time the second group is far more likely to be involved in a deadly accident than the first group.

Firstly, you are drawing an unproven conclusion. You did not state that those who drive faster get into more accidents, nor did you state that those accidents would be caused by those driving fast... or by driving fast at all.

Let me break it down for YOU. I'll use a similar example.

40-50 year olds drive 30 MPH 65% of the time, and 90 MPH 35% of the time. 20-30 year olds drive 90 MPH 90% of the time. Those who drive 90 MPH are 12x more likeky to get into an accident. Which group is more likely to get into an accident? The 20-30 year olds. What causes folks to get into accident? DRIVING 90 MPH. What is the risk factor for getting into an accident? DRIVING 90 MPH. Now, you are going to say that 20-30 year olds are a risk factor, but they are not. The information does not take into account the 20-30 year olds who do NOT drive. It also shows that 40-50 year olds who drive 90 MPH have the same risk factor of getting into an accident. The risk factor is 90 MPH, not age.

I hope you now see where your logic is flawed and how it is behavior and NOT age OR orientation that is the risk factor.

See how easy that is?
 
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Poor tex. Failing again. Let's consider this. A behavior CAN be a risk factor. An orientation cannot. Being a homosexual is NOT a risk factor for HIV. Having anal sex is a risk factor for HIV. This is the crux of why Hicup was wrong, and when confronted, refused to acknowledge it. Now, I know that you do not understand the difference between behavior and orientation... you've proven this scores of times. But you cannot refute that anal sex is a risk factor, and therefore CAN cause HIV. Homosexuality in and of itself is NOT a risk factor and in and of itself CANNOT cause HIV.

Your response is a great example of use of mental gymanstics to avoid addressing an actual point. Congratulations for so artfully denying reality.
 
Your response is a great example of use of mental gymanstics to avoid addressing an actual point. Congratulations for so artfully denying reality.

Or he is just pointing out the common sense fact that it is the risky behaviors of unprotected anal sex and promiscuity that lead to spread of HIV, not the practice of homosexuality since it is clear to anyone that two clean gay men who are monogamous with each other could never give each other HIV no matter how much gay sex they have.

Now tex is doing a pretty good job of playing mental gymnastics given that he refuses to admit that homosexual behavior, in and of itself, does not magically create the disease out of thin air.
 
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Or he is just pointing out the common sense fact that it is the risky behaviors of unprotected anal sex and promiscuity that lead to spread of HIV, not the practice of homosexuality since it is clear to anyone that two clean gay men who are monogamous with each other could never give each other HIV no matter how much gay sex they have.

Now tex is doing a pretty good job of playing mental gymnastics given that he refuses to admit that homosexual behavior, in and of itself, does not magically create the disease out of thin air.

You are just trying to stretch a point to the breaking point to avoid using the term homosexual and anal sex together. Massive straw man argument going on here. Anal sex and gay males is just part of reality. To keep denying that is a little insane. I don't see anything in what I've read so far to support your exaggeration than he thinks homosexual behavior itself created the disease. You took the big leap to that conclusion.
 
"people say gay marriage would destroy the fabric of American society.
Really? Would a gay ever do anything to harm fabric?"

Saw that joke this morning, bitt a light hearted humor before reaching page 2000...
 
You are just trying to stretch a point to the breaking point to avoid using the term homosexual and anal sex together.
Given that on average 40% of heterosexuals and only 65% of homosexual men (which comprise only 50% of all homosexuals) engage in anal sex, yeah... homosexual and anal sex are not synonymous.

More heterosexuals engage in anal sex than homosexuals.
 
Given that on average 40% of heterosexuals and only 65% of homosexual men (which comprise only 50% of all homosexuals) engage in anal sex, yeah... homosexual and anal sex are not synonymous.

More heterosexuals engage in anal sex than homosexuals.

Perceptually, homosexual men and anal sex are synonymous. I wonder where these stats come from.
 
Given that on average 40% of heterosexuals and only 65% of homosexual men (which comprise only 50% of all homosexuals) engage in anal sex, yeah... homosexual and anal sex are not synonymous.

More heterosexuals engage in anal sex than homosexuals.

Nobody said it was synonymous. Argue points that people actually present. There would be a lot more hetero's engaging in anal sex of their partners would allow it. So what? I am sure you could present some context with those statistics but it wouldn't be very convenient for you.
 
Perceptually, homosexual men and anal sex are synonymous. I wonder where these stats come from.
CDC survey

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/ad/ad362.pdf

Nobody said it was synonymous. Argue points that people actually present. There would be a lot more hetero's engaging in anal sex of their partners would allow it. So what? I am sure you could present some context with those statistics but it wouldn't be very convenient for you.
Actually, someone has said it was synonymous.

And I didn't say "there would be more heteros engaging in anal sex". I said there ARE more heteros engaging in anal sex.

What context would you like to see the statistics in, exactly?
 
CDC survey

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/ad/ad362.pdf

that article does not break down sexual preferences. It simply asks men over all.

My study does break it down specifically.

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Actually, someone has said it was synonymous.

And I didn't say "there would be more heteros engaging in anal sex". I said there ARE more heteros engaging in anal sex.

What context would you like to see the statistics in, exactly?

I would like you to show us where anal sex Per capita is being had by more heterosexual men than homosexual.

It is incredible the denial of basic facts is still going on.
 
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that article does not break down sexual preferences. It simply asks men over all.
No, it breaks it down.

My study does break it down specifically.
And says nothing about anal sex, which is what we were specifically discussing at this point since some folks here seem to think that homosexual = anal sex = HIV.


I would like you to show us where anal sex Per capita is being had by more heterosexual men than homosexual.

It is incredible the denial of basic facts is still going on.
What I said was, more heterosexuals engage in anal sex than homosexuals. And I've post this THREE times now.

According to a 2005 survey conducted by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, some studies put the incidence of anal sex in the heterosexual population as low as 24 percent and some as high as 56 percent. Averaging those numbers, let’s say 38.8 percent of heterosexuals engage in anal sex. Ninety-six percent of Americans are straight. There are 190,000,000 adults between the ages of 18 and 65 in the United States, so that means 70,771,200 adults are engaging in heterosexual anal sex. Four percent of the adult population is gay, or 7,600,000 people. Roughly half—3,800,000—are gay males. Polls indicate that between 55 and 80 percent of gay males participate in anal sex. Taking the average—67.5 percent—that means the number of gay men having anal sex comes to 2,565,000.

70,771,200 is more—a whole lot more—than 2,565,000. Anal sex in America is primarily a heterosexual pursuit.
 
Or he is just pointing out the common sense fact that it is the risky behaviors of unprotected anal sex and promiscuity that lead to spread of HIV, not the practice of homosexuality since it is clear to anyone that two clean gay men who are monogamous with each other could never give each other HIV no matter how much gay sex they have.

Now tex is doing a pretty good job of playing mental gymnastics given that he refuses to admit that homosexual behavior, in and of itself, does not magically create the disease out of thin air.

Lets see if you can understand it this way.

Who has more anal sex per captica? Heterosexual men or Homosexual men?

Go ahead, answer the question.

The fallacy of your claim is you are trying to inject that all homosexual men are clean when the facts clearly show that to be false.

To believe your fallacy you also have to accept that gay men are not diverse just like every other alternative lifestyle some have protected sex some do not. All groups have that level of diversity so putting in a fallacy argument that we can only judge them based on a Utopian society outlook on their sex lives is ridiculous as it would be for any other group.
 
You are just trying to stretch a point to the breaking point to avoid using the term homosexual and anal sex together. Massive straw man argument going on here. Anal sex and gay males is just part of reality. To keep denying that is a little insane. I don't see anything in what I've read so far to support your exaggeration than he thinks homosexual behavior itself created the disease. You took the big leap to that conclusion.

Tell me, which of these facts do you disagree with?

1. Two gay men who are HIV negative and who are monogamous with each other can never give each other HIV no matter how much anal sex they have with one another.
2. Having anal sex does not lead to HIV; having anal sex with someone who is infected with HIV can lead to HIV.
3. Both homosexuals and heterosexuals practice anal sex.
4. Both homosexuals and heterosexuals can practice bad judgment and engage in promiscuous, unprotected sex, thereby increasing their chances of coming in contact with someone infected with HIV.
5. Both homosexuals and heterosexuals can practice good judgment and engage in monogamous sex, and refrain from unprotected sex until they know their partner is clean. If they do so, then regardless of their sexual orientation, they will not get or spread HIV.

I'll wait to hear which ones you disagree with, because that is all I am saying. Anal sex alone, whether heterosexual or homosexual, will not cause HIV, so it doesn't matter to me whether or not you perceive it synonymous with homosexuality. You can only get HIV from coming in contact with an HIV positive person and then engaging in risky behaviors like anal sex.
 
No, it breaks it down.

Completely false and I challenge you to proudce the quote where it supports your claim.
And says nothing about anal sex, which is what we were specifically discussing at this point since some folks here seem to think that homosexual = anal sex = HIV.

You have GOT to be kidding. It shows gay men who have contracted HIV. Please explain your theory on how they contracted it besides anal sex that has any statistical backing whatsoever

What I said was, more heterosexuals engage in anal sex than homosexuals. And I've post this THREE times now.

And thee times now it is completely false. Your study does not break down the sexual preferences between the men in your study. It gives 2 wildly different numbers on gay men without a conclusion on what number is right. Repeating a false claim doesn't help you.

You are quoting a synopsis of the article not the article itself. Either quote the article directly or don't bother.

Please explain my numbers from the CDC if you are going to hold onto this fallacy.
 
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Lets see if you can understand it this way.

Who has more anal sex per captica? Heterosexual men or Homosexual men?

I would assume homosexual men. At least in the United States. Unprotected anal sex among heterosexuals has traditionally been practiced in Africa as a form of birth control since contraceptives have not been widely available. That practice has contributed greatly to the epidemic of HIV in Africa, which affects tens of millions of heterosexuals on that continent.

The fallacy of your claim is you are trying to inject that all homosexual men are clean when the facts clearly show that to be false.

I never suggested any such thing. Only that if clean gay men practiced monogamous sex with each other, then they could never contract HIV. In other words, it isn't anal sex or their sexual orientation that leads them to develop HIV, it is engaging in promiscuous anal sex that does so.
 
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CDC survey

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/ad/ad362.pdf


Actually, someone has said it was synonymous.

And I didn't say "there would be more heteros engaging in anal sex". I said there ARE more heteros engaging in anal sex.

What context would you like to see the statistics in, exactly?

Hi Riv -- one has to be a statistician to read those tables. Look at the wrong table -- pick up the wrong data. Confusing and likely to be misinterpretted. Not saying YOU did, but there is a high likelihood of it. I'm not sure how relevant it is that more heteros engaging in anal sex. The question asked was something like, "In the last ten years, have you....." And there would be more heteros that answer yes to that because there are more heteros. That's a given.

The number I picked up was that 34% of all males had had anal sex during the last ten years. (Table 7) 5.1% of all males are either homosexual or bi-sexual. (Table 12)

I curious and looking because I don't believe your assertion that only 65% of homosexual males engage in anal sex. Can't find it.
 
Lets see if you can understand it this way.

Who has more anal sex per captica? Heterosexual men or Homosexual men?

Go ahead, answer the question.

The fallacy of your claim is you are trying to inject that all homosexual men are clean when the facts clearly show that to be false.

To believe your fallacy you also have to accept that gay men are not diverse just like every other alternative lifestyle some have protected sex some do not. All groups have that level of diversity so putting in a fallacy argument that we can only judge them based on a Utopian society outlook on their sex lives is ridiculous as it would be for any other group.

Homosexuality is not the cause of HIV transmission. Risky behavior (unprotected anal intercourse) is one cause of HIV transmission. Homosexuals are more apt to engage in risky behavior. If they don't engage in risky behavior, they are no more likely to get HIV than the general population. What's everybody arguing about?
 
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Homosexuality is not the cause of HIV transmission. Risky behavior (unprotected anal intercourse) is one cause of HIV transmission. Homosexuals are more apt to engage in risky behavior. If they don't engage in risky behavior, they are no more likely to get HIV than the general population. What's everybody arguing about?

Tex is trying to make an argument that being homosexual makes it more likely for someone to get HIV, not engaging in risky behaviors like unprotected anal intercourse with multiple partners.
 
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Hi Riv -- one has to be a statistician to read those tables. Look at the wrong table -- pick up the wrong data. Confusing and likely to be misinterpretted. Not saying YOU did, but there is a high likelihood of it. I'm not sure how relevant it is that more heteros engaging in anal sex. The question asked was something like, "In the last ten years, have you....." And there would be more heteros that answer yes to that because there are more heteros. That's a given.

The number I picked up was that 34% of all males had had anal sex during the last ten years. (Table 7) 5.1% of all males are either homosexual or bi-sexual. (Table 12)

I curious and looking because I don't believe your assertion that only 65% of homosexual males engage in anal sex. Can't find it.

The problem is that the MSM populations don't perfectly coincide with the gay male population. A large percentage of men who have sex with men don't actually identify as gay or bisexual. As such, you get contradicting percentages.

For example, a survey conducted from 1994 to 1997 in San Francisco by the Stop AIDS Project indicated that among men who have sex with men (MSM), the proportion engaging in anal sex was 61.2%.

However, the Laumann study claims that 80% of gay men practice it, while the remaining 20% never engage in it at all.

What is clear is that nowhere near 100% of gay men or MSM practice anal sex, so homosexuality is not synonymous with anal sex However both groups are several times more likely than the general heterosexual population to engage in anal sex, so in that respect, rivrrat is incorrect.
 
Tex is trying to make an argument that being homosexual makes it more likely for someone to get HIV, not engaging in risky behaviors like unproteced anal intercourse with multiple partners.

It's semantics, isn't it? More homosexuals get HIV because more homosexuals engage in the risky behavior that causes it. Does that mean it's more likely for someone who's homosexual to get HIV? Yes. But it's not a result of their being homosexual.
 
It's semantics, isn't it? More homosexuals get HIV because more homosexuals engage in the risky behavior that causes it. Does that mean it's more likely for someone who's homosexual to get HIV? Yes. But it's not a result of their being homosexual.

Tex is trying to argue that it is a result of them being homosexual. He is arguing that since most of the people who have HIV are gay, that being gay leads to HIV.
 
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