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Thread: California gay marriage ban overturned: report

  1. #751
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    Re: California gay marriage ban overturned: report

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    It should go to state court first to let the state address it and explain it
    It did go to a state court first.

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    Re: California gay marriage ban overturned: report

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    We do choose things every day on what MIGHT happen in the future. However we do not base immediete actions on SOLELY what may happen in the future without any thought about the present.

    I know I need to eat food. Now, there's a possability that when I go and make a Peanut Butter and Jelly Sandwich that the nuts MIGHT be affected by some kind of bacterial infrection that could cause me severe illness, or the shrimp I have in the fridge may've been in there too long and spoiled and MIGHT also cause me harm. However, that does not necessarily mean I simply should not eat because these are possabilities that MIGHT happen.

    Let us take something from recent times, the Patriot Act.

    The Patriot Act provided a much needed upgrade to our intelligence laws, but it also expanded the power of the government. Lets assume however that you felt such a thing was "needed" and "correct".

    Lets say however you also agreed with the notion others had that by giving the government more power than inevitably that could be used to give them more power and after that inevitably for a President to declare a state of emergency and become essentially a king.

    Does that mean you should not support the Patriot Act, which you strongly and principely felt was a needed and good measure, simply because of something that MIGHT happen in the future if people acted wrongly and twisted it to proportions that it doesn't actually allow?

    Not in the least.

    That is similar to here.

    Many of us feel that marriage between two individuals regardless of sex is correct, right, and constitutional. As such, we support that.

    However, the fact that the standard for Equal Protection could maybe somehow possibly be manipulated and wrongly used for abortion doesn't mean I should not support it. It means that if someone tries that I should fight against it.

    You should not NOT do something that you firmly believing is right simply because there's some kind of change that someone at some point will try to do something that is not right by manipulating that which you agreed with.

    If that is the case, we should never do anything, at any time, because there is ALWAYS a way to create a doomsday scenario where taking any action could cause a bad reaction.
    I agree with you in principle. That said, in this case, what might happen, is a reasonable, and necessary qualifier, for the long-term societal structure of the nation. In the case concerning the Partriot Act, creating a King is unreasonable.


    Tim-
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    Re: California gay marriage ban overturned: report

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    Bull it is the feds not letting the state govern its people
    No, the whole of our system from State to Federal level has been filled with checks and balances. You don't like it because in this case the checks caught something you supported. But the checks and balances are necessary. Not even State government can be left to do as it likes. All government is restricted.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: California gay marriage ban overturned: report

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    It did the first time. You should follow an issue closely if you want to debate it.
    Then why was prop 8 allowed on the ballot?

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    Re: California gay marriage ban overturned: report

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    You're not kidding. Its actually why this entire thing disappoints me that its even at the court level.

    I personally wish both sides would back down and attempt to have some reasonable, honest, discussion.

    I maintain that by far, the best way to address the majority of concerns of both sides is to eliminate the word "marriage" from law and the government entirely, completely striking it from the strange duality it serves now as existing in two different spheres both religious and governmental.

    This would retain the "sanctity" or "marriage" as at that point only individual churches could actually "marry" someone under the auspices of their church and no one could claim that the government is somehow demeaning their "marriage" by allowing people they don't think should enter into it to be technically "married" because the term would be out of the governments hands entirely.

    Meanwhile pro-gay marriage advocates should be happy because the government now has only one term, civil union, that applies to any two legal aged individuals that wish to enter into said contract. There is no "seperate but equal" status, there is but one.

    This retains the "sanctity" of marriage while maintaining the "equality" of government.
    Exactly. States should issue civil unions and churches should be free to marry whomever their religion dictates. I have a feeling that the anti-gay marriage crowd would not be comfortable with this though because some churches would allow gays to marry.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: California gay marriage ban overturned: report

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    Then why was prop 8 allowed on the ballot?
    Please know the issues if you are going to debate them. The challenge obviously came after the election.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: California gay marriage ban overturned: report

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    It did go to a state court first.
    When? since the vote passed?

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    Re: California gay marriage ban overturned: report

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Exactly. States should issue civil unions and churches should be free to marry whomever their religion dictates. I have a feeling that the anti-gay marriage crowd would not be comfortable with this though because some churches would allow gays to marry.
    I could live with that compromise personally.


    Tim-
    “When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators.” - P. J. O’Rourke
    “Socialism is great until you run out of someone elses money” Margaret Thatcher

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    Re: California gay marriage ban overturned: report

    Quote Originally Posted by marduc View Post
    plaintiffs case was not regarding any conflicts with state law or the state constitution, it was charging conflict with the US constitution. State courts do not have jurisdiction with the complaint.
    It is a state law they most certanly do have the right to see if it is legal

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    Re: California gay marriage ban overturned: report

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    When? since the vote passed?
    It went to the state court first. Yes, after the vote.

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