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Thread: California gay marriage ban overturned: report

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    Re: California gay marriage ban overturned: report

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    To my understanding, Preponderance of the evidence is the burden of proof, not beyond reasonable doubt. If the former, then it's not the highest burden.


    Tim-
    Once again displaying your ignorance of equal protection analysis. Neither of those are used.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: California gay marriage ban overturned: report

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Because children do not have the intellectual development to be able to meet the minimal standards required to knowingly enter into a legally binding contract.
    Do children have the intellectual capacity to reconcile the gay marriage issue, or homosexuality, if taught in the public schools as perfectly "normal"?


    Tim-
    “When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators.” - P. J. O’Rourke
    “Socialism is great until you run out of someone elses money” Margaret Thatcher

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    Re: California gay marriage ban overturned: report

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    Do children have the intellectual capacity to reconcile the gay marriage issue, or homosexuality, if taught in the public schools as perfectly "normal"?


    Tim-
    I think we vastly underestimate the intellectual capacity of children. Regardless, these things can be explained without having to go into anything offensive or confusing.

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    Re: California gay marriage ban overturned: report

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    Do children have the intellectual capacity to reconcile the gay marriage issue, or homosexuality, if taught in the public schools as perfectly "normal"?


    Tim-
    There is no legal standard for that. There is in order to enter into a contract.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: California gay marriage ban overturned: report

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    Besides, how does abortion reasonably serve the government interest?
    Read this book: Amazon.com: Freakonomics: A Rogue Economist Explores the Hidden…

    and google this:

    "The Impact of Legalized Abortion on Crime" is a controversial paper by John Donohue of Yale University and Steven Levitt of University of Chicago that argues that the legalization of abortion in the 1970s contributed significantly to reductions in crime rates experienced in the 1990s. The paper, published in the Quarterly Journal of Economics in 2001, offers evidence that the falling United States crime rates of the 1990s were mostly caused by the legalization of abortion due to the Roe v. Wade court decision of 1973.
    Then ask yourself: How much does an abortion cost the state? How much does it cost to house a repeat offender or an unwanted child, abused and neglected?

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    Re: California gay marriage ban overturned: report

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    First, where in the world did abortion come into this? More so, where in the world does abortion even need to serve government interest. Seriously, take your derail elsewhere. No where in my post am I even speaking about abortion.

    Second, I readily admit its been a while since I've looked into any studies regarding the potential for higher genetic defects when close relatives produce off spring. If I'm wrong then sure, I may have to change my view on the illegality (if not the social stigma) of such practices.
    I did not wish to bring abortion in this debate, it has no place, and I agree. However, I brought it up only to illustrate the slippery slope of using "reasonable societal interest" as a staple in your argument.

    Tim-
    “When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators.” - P. J. O’Rourke
    “Socialism is great until you run out of someone elses money” Margaret Thatcher

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    Re: California gay marriage ban overturned: report

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    Polygamy is a practice, not an orientation.
    Really? I would argue otherise - that people are naturally oriented toward polygamy (men, more so) and that monogamy is the "unnatural" orientation. Hence the need for a social institution promoting monogamy.

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    Re: California gay marriage ban overturned: report

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    To my understanding, Preponderance of the evidence is the burden of proof, not beyond reasonable doubt. If the former, then it's not the highest burden.

    Tim-
    There are three levels of scrutiny that fall upon Equal Protection Claims.

    The first is reserved for Suspect Classifications. These are things like Race, Religion, etc. This classification requires that the government show a compelling state interest that shows that the inequality is necessary to serve said interest.

    The second is reserved for Quasi-suspect Classifications and requires middle-tier scrutiny. This is the standard for Gender. It requires that the government show an important state interest and that the inequality is at least substantially related to serving that interest.

    The third tier, which is the lowest, is known as Rational Basis Scrutiny. In this the government needs to only show that the inequality is rationally related to serving a legitimate state itnerest. This is reserved for any status not generally outlined, which is actually where homosexuality would currently fit into.

    In this particular instance none of the things the state presented were deemed to be an "important" state interest and/or that said interests would not be "substantially" benefited from said inequality.

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    Re: California gay marriage ban overturned: report

    Polygamy vs monagamy also is not the point of this thread.

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    Re: California gay marriage ban overturned: report

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    I did not wish to bring abortion in this debate, it has no place, and I agree. However, I brought it up only to illustrate the slippery slope of using "reasonable societal interest" as a staple in your argument.

    Tim-
    Whether or not you think there is a slippery slope is irrelevant to what is actually required by legal standards.

    Additionally, a slippery slope argument...especially one as far fetched as yours....is not a worth while reason to bypass doing something that IS worthy simply because people may wrongfully use it to do something not worthy in the future.

    The more correct way of dealing with such situations is to argue for what's correct now and argue against what's incorrect later, not refuse to accept what is correct now for fear that it MIGHT lead to something incorrect later.

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