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Thread: California gay marriage ban overturned: report

  1. #1721
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    Re: California gay marriage ban overturned: report

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    I have, but that is irrelevant. The fact is that sexes are banned from certain areas based on gender is considered fine and moral given the uses for bathrooms. Having a unisex bathroom does not negate the fact that male and female restricted bathrooms exist and are not challenged.
    Actually they are. Transexuals are often challenging the fact that they are restricted from using the bathroom of their perceived gender. Although I don't think any such case has made its way into court yet. It'll be interesting when one does to see if they can make a Constitutional argument of sex discrimination out of it.

    However, there are other factors to contend with, such as regulation of private property, which play into it and make the bathroom/locker arguments rather irrelevant to the marriage discussion.
    Last edited by CriticalThought; 08-09-10 at 03:59 PM.

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    Re: California gay marriage ban overturned: report

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    That's my point. The state can call it marriage.



    I have, but that is irrelevant. The fact is that sexes are banned from certain areas based on gender is considered fine and moral given the uses for bathrooms. Having a unisex bathroom does not negate the fact that male and female restricted bathrooms exist and are not challenged.

    Because there's no legal benefits attached to taking a pee.

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    Re: California gay marriage ban overturned: report

    However, there is that wonderful shivery feeling that happens if you had to hold it for awhile.

    ........ tmi?

    Quote Originally Posted by FilmFestGuy View Post
    Because there's no legal benefits attached to taking a pee.

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    Re: California gay marriage ban overturned: report

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    But there are logical reasons to separating male and female restrooms. Separate but equal is sometimes necessary and not inherently bad. An apple and an orange are separate but equal as fruits.
    I disagree, but that's another issue altogether.

    But the definition of marriage comes from mother nature's principals.
    "mother nature" doesn't have any principals.

    The wife is the female who has the children,
    The woman does, she doesn't need to be a wife. And she only does so if she chooses to.

    the male is the husband who provides the seed.
    A man does, doesn't have to be a husband or even the woman's husband or partner. And that's only if HE chooses to.

    That is one of the natural things within marriage and assigning the gender roles of the wife and husband.
    Only if you consider marriage to be a requirement to having children and/or having children a requirement of marriage. But marriage is not "natural" in the general sense of the word. It's a man made, man defined institution.

    By definition, a woman cannot be a husband because she is not male. This isn't wrong, it's just logical and natural.
    There's nothing "natural" about marriage anyway. It's a man made thing. (using the generally accepted defintion of the word 'natural') Regardless, she doesn't have to be a husband (a word that WE define and can redefine, btw). She can be a wife, as can her wife.

    Which is a moral stance. And until (or if) those definitions are changed, they shall be kept as wife=woman, husband=man.
    husband and husband, and wife and wife. But no, it's not a moral stance, it's a legal one based on gender equality in our govt.
    Last edited by rivrrat; 08-09-10 at 04:08 PM.

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    Re: California gay marriage ban overturned: report

    Quote Originally Posted by FilmFestGuy View Post
    Because there's no legal benefits attached to taking a pee.
    Not to mention that every time I have used a "Men's" bathroom, I wasn't prevented from doing so by anyone.

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    Re: California gay marriage ban overturned: report

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    Not to mention that every time I have used a "Men's" bathroom, I wasn't prevented from doing so by anyone.
    I'm not sure how we're supposed to interpret that

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    Re: California gay marriage ban overturned: report

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post

    Fair enough, sorry for a false accusation
    Thank you.


    Yes they are, the state is taking a moral stance that homosexual unions are just as much a marriage as a traditional heterosexual one.
    No, and this is where your argument loses validity. The state is NOT taking a moral stance. It is taking a scientific stance that homosexual unions are as beneficial to society as heterosexual ones.

    The state would be acting upon a moral issue and taking a moral stance against the will and morals of the majority. I have said this before, there would be no legal recourse or complaint if the majority voted for a marriage definition hat included same sex relationships. The state would be imposing one moral stance as superior to the other. That is absolutely imposing morals upon an entire society.
    This is why I never argue from a moral stance... because it's not about morality. It's about information and science. tex has repeated a failed mantra throughout this. From a benefit to society standpoint, there is no difference between hetero- and homo- sexual marriage. All evidence confirms this. It does NOT confirm this with polygamy.

    In the case of proving whether or not GM is valid, morality is irrelevant. You can vote how you desire, but this is ultimately about science, not morality.


    Here is an essay that was written and is backed up by numerous scientific sources that states that homosexuality may develop due to sexual, physical, and emotional abuse. Sexual Abuse: A Major Cause Of Homosexuality?
    You REALLY don't want to go this route. I have to get back to work, but I can debunk this essay in about 2 seconds. Here is the first two lines:

    It is a well-documented fact that many many homosexuals were sexually abused when young. (This paper will conclude with a list of some books which support that statement.)In other words, there is an abundance of evidence that many many homosexuals were born heterosexual but were disoriented by sexual abuse.
    This is a logical fallacy. No causastion whatsoever. Therefore, the author can NOT make the claim that homosexuals were born heterosexual and were disoriented by sexual abuse. It is an absurd claim, that I will further debunk later.

    Further, the paper lies about credentials. Dr. Ronald Bayer is NOT a psychiatrist, nor was he ever. He is a professor of Sociology. His paper about how homosexuality was removed as a diagnosis has been debunked, repeatedly. He was not there. There is a book written by those who WERE there about how it happened. I'll dig it up and post it later.

    In other words, the essay you posted is completely invalid. That didn't take me long at all.
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    Re: California gay marriage ban overturned: report

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    What do polygamists have to do with the state mandating gender roles?
    Absolutely nothing. tex still doesn't understand how one defines sexual orientation and that polygamy is not one. Pay him no mind.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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    Re: California gay marriage ban overturned: report

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    I'm not sure how we're supposed to interpret that
    LOL however you wish.

    If the women's bathroom line is too long and I gotta go, I'm going in the men's bathroom. Simple as.

    We have men's and women's bathrooms here at work and they are absolutely identical. They are also one person only bathrooms. We all use them as though they are unisex even though they are designated otherwise. It would be stupid not to. Why should I stand in the hall trying not to piss my pants when there's a perfectly good bathroom right in front of me that just happens to have "Men" written on the door? It's silly.

    But, no one stops me or anyone else from using that bathroom. So, there's no reason for me to petition the company to have unisex bathrooms.

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    Re: California gay marriage ban overturned: report

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Absolutely nothing. tex still doesn't understand how one defines sexual orientation and that polygamy is not one. Pay him no mind.
    I don't believe that Walker even ruled that Prop 8 was unconstitutional on the basis that it violated the 14th amendment by discriminating against sexual orientation. I believe he overturned it on the basis that it discriminated again sex. Things like sex, race, age, etc. are protected classes by federal law, and things like polygamy, pedophilia, and sexual orientation are not. I read through the ruling and it seemed to me that he was saying the state had no rational or legitimate interest in mandating gender roles in marriage, and therefore could not lawfully discriminate against a man choosing to marry a man or a woman choosing to marry a woman. Whether or not they were homosexual couples seemed to be irrelevant.
    Last edited by CriticalThought; 08-09-10 at 04:37 PM.

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