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Thread: California gay marriage ban overturned: report

  1. #1621
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    Re: California gay marriage ban overturned: report

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    Lets see if you can understand it this way.

    Who has more anal sex per captica? Heterosexual men or Homosexual men?

    Go ahead, answer the question.

    The fallacy of your claim is you are trying to inject that all homosexual men are clean when the facts clearly show that to be false.

    To believe your fallacy you also have to accept that gay men are not diverse just like every other alternative lifestyle some have protected sex some do not. All groups have that level of diversity so putting in a fallacy argument that we can only judge them based on a Utopian society outlook on their sex lives is ridiculous as it would be for any other group.
    Homosexuality is not the cause of HIV transmission. Risky behavior (unprotected anal intercourse) is one cause of HIV transmission. Homosexuals are more apt to engage in risky behavior. If they don't engage in risky behavior, they are no more likely to get HIV than the general population. What's everybody arguing about?
    Last edited by MaggieD; 08-09-10 at 12:13 PM.
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    Re: California gay marriage ban overturned: report

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Homosexuality is not the cause of HIV transmission. Risky behavior (unprotected anal intercourse) is one cause of HIV transmission. Homosexuals are more apt to engage in risky behavior. If they don't engage in risky behavior, they are no more likely to get HIV than the general population. What's everybody arguing about?
    Tex is trying to make an argument that being homosexual makes it more likely for someone to get HIV, not engaging in risky behaviors like unprotected anal intercourse with multiple partners.
    Last edited by CriticalThought; 08-09-10 at 12:24 PM.

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    Re: California gay marriage ban overturned: report

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Hi Riv -- one has to be a statistician to read those tables. Look at the wrong table -- pick up the wrong data. Confusing and likely to be misinterpretted. Not saying YOU did, but there is a high likelihood of it. I'm not sure how relevant it is that more heteros engaging in anal sex. The question asked was something like, "In the last ten years, have you....." And there would be more heteros that answer yes to that because there are more heteros. That's a given.

    The number I picked up was that 34% of all males had had anal sex during the last ten years. (Table 7) 5.1% of all males are either homosexual or bi-sexual. (Table 12)

    I curious and looking because I don't believe your assertion that only 65% of homosexual males engage in anal sex. Can't find it.
    The problem is that the MSM populations don't perfectly coincide with the gay male population. A large percentage of men who have sex with men don't actually identify as gay or bisexual. As such, you get contradicting percentages.

    For example, a survey conducted from 1994 to 1997 in San Francisco by the Stop AIDS Project indicated that among men who have sex with men (MSM), the proportion engaging in anal sex was 61.2%.

    However, the Laumann study claims that 80% of gay men practice it, while the remaining 20% never engage in it at all.

    What is clear is that nowhere near 100% of gay men or MSM practice anal sex, so homosexuality is not synonymous with anal sex However both groups are several times more likely than the general heterosexual population to engage in anal sex, so in that respect, rivrrat is incorrect.

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    Re: California gay marriage ban overturned: report

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Tex is trying to make an argument that being homosexual makes it more likely for someone to get HIV, not engaging in risky behaviors like unproteced anal intercourse with multiple partners.
    It's semantics, isn't it? More homosexuals get HIV because more homosexuals engage in the risky behavior that causes it. Does that mean it's more likely for someone who's homosexual to get HIV? Yes. But it's not a result of their being homosexual.
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    Re: California gay marriage ban overturned: report

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    It's semantics, isn't it? More homosexuals get HIV because more homosexuals engage in the risky behavior that causes it. Does that mean it's more likely for someone who's homosexual to get HIV? Yes. But it's not a result of their being homosexual.
    Tex is trying to argue that it is a result of them being homosexual. He is arguing that since most of the people who have HIV are gay, that being gay leads to HIV.

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    Re: California gay marriage ban overturned: report

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Tell me, which of these facts do you disagree with?

    1. Two gay men who are HIV negative and who are monogamous with each other can never give each other HIV no matter how much anal sex they have with one another.
    2. Having anal sex does not lead to HIV; having anal sex with someone who is infected with HIV can lead to HIV.
    3. Both homosexuals and heterosexuals practice anal sex.
    4. Both homosexuals and heterosexuals can practice bad judgment and engage in promiscuous, unprotected sex, thereby increasing their chances of coming in contact with someone infected with HIV.
    5. Both homosexuals and heterosexuals can practice good judgment and engage in monogamous sex, and refrain from unprotected sex until they know their partner is clean. If they do so, then regardless of their sexual orientation, they will not get or spread HIV.

    I'll wait to hear which ones you disagree with, because that is all I am saying. Anal sex alone, whether heterosexual or homosexual, will not cause HIV, so it doesn't matter to me whether or not you perceive it synonymous with homosexuality. You can only get HIV from coming in contact with an HIV positive person and then engaging in risky behaviors like anal sex.
    I thoroughly agree with your simplistic examples which have nothing to do with this argument.

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    Re: California gay marriage ban overturned: report

    Quote Originally Posted by jambalaya View Post
    I thoroughly agree with your simplistic examples which have nothing to do with this argument.
    What is your argument?

    The leading cause of HIV in the United States is promiscuous, unprotected anal sex. Men who have sex with men, as a population, are the most likely to practice promiscuous, unprotected anal sex and are therefore the most likely to get and spread the disease. However, if men who have sex with men do not engage in this risky behavior, then their risk of contracting HIV is no greater than the rest of the population. If they practice monogamy with a clean partner, then they will not get HIV.

    That is all I am arguing. Do you have a problem with that arugment?

  8. #1628
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    Re: California gay marriage ban overturned: report

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    Completely false and I challenge you to proudce the quote where it supports your claim.
    I gave you a copy of the whole ****ing report in PDF format. I can't exactly quote a PDF, except to type it all out here letter by letter. And then, you're just going to say I made it up, or you'll go actually read the PDF and fnd the information yourself. Instead of wasting my time typing out what is already typed out in the PDF, I'll just let you read the ****ing thing yourself.

    You might want to check out the section where they compare to previous surveys. In addition, you might want to notice at the top of each table where it explains what information is being presented.


    You have GOT to be kidding. It shows gay men who have contracted HIV. Please explain your theory on how they contracted it besides anal sex that has any statistical backing whatsoever

    And thee times now it is completely false. Your study does not break down the sexual preferences between the men in your study. It gives 2 wildly different numbers on gay men without a conclusion on what number is right. Repeating a false claim doesn't help you.
    The two "wildly different numbers" have been averaged for both hetero and homosexuals. That seemed the fairest way to come up with an... average number. The report explains how and why those wildly different numbers came about. (due to survey methodology and the survey sampling.

    You are quoting a synopsis of the article not the article itself. Either quote the article directly or don't bother.
    I can't quote a PDF. I gave you the PDF

    Please explain my numbers from the CDC if you are going to hold onto this fallacy.
    Explain what, exactly? That unprotected anal sex with HIV positive people is an extremely high risk activity regardless of the genders involved? Or that one's sexual orientation is completely separate from one's risk of contracting an STI?


    The whole point is, there are more heterosexuals in the country. So of COURSE more heterosexuals engage in anal sex. The difference is, heterosexuals have a much larger pool of people with which to engage in sex WITH. The smaller the pool of people, the more rampant any disease is going to run within it. But one's sexual orientation is irrelevant to the activities that may or may not increase risk of transmission. What IS relevant is the type of sex involved, and if it's protected or not. Period. End of story.
    Last edited by rivrrat; 08-09-10 at 12:46 PM.

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    Re: California gay marriage ban overturned: report

    Quote Originally Posted by jambalaya View Post
    Your response is a great example of use of mental gymanstics to avoid addressing an actual point. Congratulations for so artfully denying reality.
    Your response is an excellent example of denial of logic because it doesn't fit your point of view. Congratulations on your denial of reality.
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    Re: California gay marriage ban overturned: report

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    What is your argument?

    The leading cause of HIV in the United States is promiscuous, unprotected anal sex. Men who have sex with men, as a population, are the most likely to practice promiscuous, unprotected anal sex and are therefore the most likely to get and spread the disease. However, if men who have sex with men do not engage in this risky behavior, then their risk of contracting HIV is no greater than the rest of the population. If they practice monogamy with a clean partner, then they will not get HIV.

    That is all I am arguing. Do you have a problem with that arugment?
    that isn't the argument at all.

    Again for the 3,421 time the ONLY reason this was brought up was to expose the fallacy of CC's argument when he claimed he could deny marriage to groups based on positive and negative contributions to a society. The higher occurance of HIV in homosexuals particularly male homosexuals was to expose the fallacy of his argument by proving all sexual orientations have negatives and positives.

    That's when he began his mental gymnastics and got a few others to play along ignoring the evidence of the CDC report.
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