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Thread: California gay marriage ban overturned: report

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    Re: California gay marriage ban overturned: report

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Please provide a link for that information.
    Tex did... That's all I needed. It is also the most current data available. The claim I make is 100% accurate.


    Tim-
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    Re: California gay marriage ban overturned: report

    I was tired, it was late for me on the east coast. What I should have said is that in western societies, heterosexuals with no known risk factors have a statistically zero chance of acquiring HIV.
    Do you consider being of African descent a "risk factor"?
    Because in sub-saharan Africa, nearly 25 million men, women, and children are infected with HIV.
    These are largely tribal people; I doubt they're all homosexuals, and I doubt they're IV drug users, either, unless they're making syringes out of wood and using them to shoot up tree sap.

    In America, as well, individuals of African descent are disproportionately infected with the HIV virus; heterosexual men and women alike, most with no known history of IV drug use.

    I read an interesting theory once, that people of Northern European descent may have some level of genetic immunity to HIV which those of African origin typically lack.
    The theory was that this is because most people of European origin are descendants of bubonic plague survivors, since "the Black Death", as it was called, swept Europe again and again, every single generation from the 1300s until the 1700s, killing 80% of the population in the hardest hit areas, infecting virtually everyone.
    About 20-25% of those infected with bubonic plague survived; a second, slightly less common form of plague (Pneumonic) was even more virulent, killing off 90-95% of those it infected.

    The plague never made any real inroads into Africa, however.

    It seems far-fetched, but it's remotely possible, I suppose, that having some sort of hereditary immunity to plague, due to our ancestors' recurrent exposure to it, might have given white people some slight immunity to "the plague of the 20th century", HIV, which our African brethren lack.

  3. #1433
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    Re: California gay marriage ban overturned: report

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    Tex did... That's all I needed. It is also the most current data available. The claim I make is 100% accurate.


    Tim-
    And I just demonstrated that his information was faulty. Took about 3 seconds.
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    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

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    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
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    Re: California gay marriage ban overturned: report

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    Oh I'm not done with you yet.. I am just spending some time on this HIV thing first in orde to put it to bed. It means nothing to this thread in any meaningful way, and it meant nothing other than to illustrate a galring inconsistency with your whole "negatives" approach to the States interest in marriage. But, this is just a preliminary warning to let you know that I intend to review your responses to me in my absence, and if they have merit, I will address them.


    Tim-
    Problem is that not only have you NOT put the HIV thing to bed, but you have been refuted. And I'M not done with YOU on the issue, yet. You can't substantiate your information, simply because homosexuality is nothing but a correlation, not a causation to HIV. The causation... or one of them, would be risky sexual behavior. Notice the word in bold? THAT'S the lnk. Homosexuality ie: gay sexual orientation is not. This is yet another example of your inability to debate without logical fallacies.

    Now that I have put the HIV issue to bed, feel free to comment on my posts from last night. But do try to get my argument correct, rather than arguing what you WANT me to have said.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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    Re: California gay marriage ban overturned: report

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    And I just demonstrated that his information was faulty. Took about 3 seconds.
    yeah but you made the same mistake that other poster did, you looked at global statistics. Tex posted the relevant graph, and to what it was I was referring last night. Ok, so I got sloppy, it was late and I was tired. I don't normally make a claim like that with providing a link. It slipped my mind, as my attention was on the legal aspects being brought out in this thread. The comment about HIV was unimportant in the grand scheme.

    Look, if you and the others wishing to make this into 20 pages about statistical analysis I'd be happy to join a separate thread on it. I have experience with statistics ya know, and would love to share it with y'all.. But, in the interest of moving this thread forward on the central issue, can we please disregard the HIV coment for now?

    Pretty please with sugar on top?

    Now that I have put the HIV issue to bed, feel free to comment on my posts from last night. But do try to get my argument correct, rather than arguing what you WANT me to have said.
    CC, you have no idea how wrong you are about the "HIV" thing.. But like I said, if you really and truly believe that my analysis of those statistics is wrong, then start another thread on it. I already gave you the answer, but hey, if that makes no sense to you then have at er.. I'll clarify more for you, and the others..

    Just so we're clear though, when and if I do reply to your posts in my absence, I am directly being challenged to refute your argument that you posted in 4/4/2009, correct?


    Tim-



    Tim-
    Last edited by Hicup; 08-08-10 at 01:16 AM.
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  6. #1436
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    Re: California gay marriage ban overturned: report

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    yeah but you made the same mistake that other poster did, you looked at global statistics. Tex posted the relevant graph, and to what it was I was referring last night. Ok, so I got sloppy, it was late and I was tired. I don't normally make a claim like that with providing a link. It slipped my mind, as my attention was on the legal aspects being brought out in this thread. The comment about HIV was unimportant in the grand scheme.

    Look, if you and the others wishing to make this into 20 pages about statistical analysis I'd be happy to join a separate thread on it. I have experience with statistics ya know, and would love to share it with y'all.. But, in the interest of moving this thread forward on the central issue, can we please disregard the HIV coment for now?

    Pretty please with sugar on top?



    CC, you have no idea how wrong you are about the "HIV" thing.. But like I said, if you really and truly believe that my analysis of those statistics is wrong, then start another thread on it. I already gave you the answer, but hey, if that makes no sense to you then have at er.. I'll clarify more for you, and the others..

    Just so we're clear though, when and if I do reply to your posts in my absence, I am directly being challenged to refute your argument that you posted in 4/4/2009, correct?


    Tim-



    Tim-
    The problem with your "statistical analysis" is you are looking at numbers and reaching a faulty conclusion. I repeat: a gay man who engages in low risk activities is less likely to contract HIV than a strait man engaging in high risk activities. Now, I wonder why that is....

    Further, you cannot throw gay women out of the "analysis" just because they disprove your claim. They do happen to be...surprise, gay.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

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    Re: California gay marriage ban overturned: report

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    yeah but you made the same mistake that other poster did, you looked at global statistics. Tex posted the relevant graph, and to what it was I was referring last night. Ok, so I got sloppy, it was late and I was tired. I don't normally make a claim like that with providing a link. It slipped my mind, as my attention was on the legal aspects being brought out in this thread. The comment about HIV was unimportant in the grand scheme.

    Look, if you and the others wishing to make this into 20 pages about statistical analysis I'd be happy to join a separate thread on it. I have experience with statistics ya know, and would love to share it with y'all.. But, in the interest of moving this thread forward on the central issue, can we please disregard the HIV coment for now?

    Pretty please with sugar on top?
    I have plenty of experience with statistics and statistical analysis. I understand your "refutation" completely. It does not address the core issue which is what I addressed... correlation, not causation. I am quite confident that you are incorrect on this.

    But that's fine. We can leave this.



    CC, you have no idea how wrong you are about the "HIV" thing.. But like I said, if you really and truly believe that my analysis of those statistics is wrong, then start another thread on it. I already gave you the answer, but hey, if that makes no sense to you then have at er.. I'll clarify more for you, and the others..
    No, I have no desire to start a thread like that. Like I said, I am quite confident you are wrong. I'm very familiar with statistical analysis and logical deductions from that analysis. You are incorrect, but we can move on.

    Just so we're clear though, when and if I do reply to your posts in my absence, I am directly being challenged to refute your argument that you posted in 4/4/2009, correct?
    Yes, that is correct. Do you understand the position I was presenting? Yesterday, you were going with the "proving a negative" route, which was not my argument.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  8. #1438
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    Re: California gay marriage ban overturned: report

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    The problem with your "statistical analysis" is you are looking at numbers and reaching a faulty conclusion. I repeat: a gay man who engages in low risk activities is less likely to contract HIV than a strait man engaging in high risk activities. Now, I wonder why that is....

    Further, you cannot throw gay women out of the "analysis" just because they disprove your claim. They do happen to be...surprise, gay.
    Ok, Redress... Start a thread on it, but not here in this one. I'll show you why you're wrong on all counts, except the gay female issue. Even if you include gay woman, I'm still 100% accurate with my analysis. I excluded them because their instance of contracting HIV is even less statistically significant than straight woman. In other words, they didn't matter to the analysis, nor the claim. Now, please, bring it up in another thread.


    Tim-
    “When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators.” - P. J. O’Rourke
    “Socialism is great until you run out of someone elses money” Margaret Thatcher

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    Re: California gay marriage ban overturned: report

    Anal sex is a known risk factor for HIV, whether it's practiced by a heterosexual or homosexual couple.

    Re: the prevalence of HIV in subsaharan African countries such as Angola, Botswana, Camaroon, etc:
    These are countries where FGM (female genital modification) is widely practiced.
    I wonder if that is also a factor which increases their risk.
    Surely it means that vaginal sex involves a lot of extra tearing and bleeding which would not be present in women who had not been subjected to FGM.

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    Re: California gay marriage ban overturned: report

    Ok, so now can we move on? Thanks for the courtesy, Captain. Give me a bit, I generally like to go back a few pages from where I left off just so I can ease my way back into it.

    Shouldn't take more than about 20 min or so..


    Tim-
    “When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators.” - P. J. O’Rourke
    “Socialism is great until you run out of someone elses money” Margaret Thatcher

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