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Thread: California gay marriage ban overturned: report

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    Re: California gay marriage ban overturned: report

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    I am arguing that the 14th amendment and the equal protection clause protects individual classes of people from discrimination in regards ot the law, including constitutional rights.
    I disagree. The Constitution protects individual rights and sometimes whole groups have a valid complaint about the law discriminating.
    When it comes down to it the argument that if Jill can marry John BUT Tom can't marry John is discriminatory then ......
    If John can marry Jill but Tom can't ALSO marry Jill it's just as discriminatory to Tom and based on a government definition of what marriage is.
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    Re: California gay marriage ban overturned: report

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain America View Post
    But I must confess, even though I support allowing gays to marry, I do find it a bit uncomfortable to see a judge over ruling the will of the majority on any issue.
    The will of the majority of California may have been to ban gay marriage, but the will of the majority of the United States of America is the Federal Constitution. Look at this way; the judge was simply protecting the interest of a larger majority. Until there is a Federal Constitutional amendment defining marriage as between a man and a woman, I am quite certain the will of the people of America is to protect and serve the Federal Constitution as it is, and this judge has done very well in that respect.
    Last edited by CriticalThought; 08-06-10 at 06:22 PM.

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    Re: California gay marriage ban overturned: report

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain America View Post
    I am not against gay marriage. I do not have a homophobic bone in my body (no pun intended.) But I must confess, even though I support allowing gays to marry, I do find it a bit uncomfortable to see a judge over ruling the will of the majority on any issue. But, that being said, if the courts were to always rule along the lines of majority rule, women wouldn't be voting and blacks would still be riding at the back of the bus. So, I can see some benefits going against the majority.

    But one thing is for sure, as Redress brought up. Homophobia is on the decline. In ten years, I think you would be hard pressed to find a majority against the gays no matter where you looked. The folks from the older generations conditioned the way the older generations were raised to believe, are becoming less, and less, and less. That isn't an opinion, but a fact.

    My question is this, when the majority of the population approves gay marriage in the years (<10) to come, will they still hang on to the idea that the will of the majority should be adhered to, like they are saying now, or will they come up with another reason to poo-poo gay marriage?

    Face it. It's coming. Gays will be allowed to marry, coast to coast, within the next 10 years. I know some say it will never happen but those folks also said Obama would never get elected. LOL!
    Perhaps.

    Gays will be allowed to marry. Healthcare will be universal. The deficit will be insurmountable. Social security will have dried up and gone. Unemployment will be at 20 percent.

    And secession very well may be underway.

    America is losing its soul and its identity.

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    Re: California gay marriage ban overturned: report

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    You're a good dude, and I certainly wince that I'm offending you. I have no issue with you being gay, so please know that. This is an issue I'm very passionate about, as are you, and one we'll continue to butt heads. We're pretty parallel elsewhere.

    I post so absolutely for a reason. I find the debate ridiculous frankly. I know you don't, but that's just where I am with it.

    If I met you face to face, I'd gladly have a few beers with you. However, we'll just never see eye to eye on this particular issue.
    That's fair. Just understand that I have a real hard time with your presentation here though...it's not the argument itself; its how you're kinda going out of your way to be a little offensive about it.

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    Re: California gay marriage ban overturned: report

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    Perhaps.

    Gays will be allowed to marry. Healthcare will be universal. The deficit will be insurmountable. Social security will have dried up and gone. Unemployment will be at 20 percent.

    And secession very well may be underway.

    America is losing its soul and its identity.
    Hey look, irrational fear and an appeal to emotion.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: California gay marriage ban overturned: report

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    America is losing its soul and its identity.
    Pray tell what is that soul and identity?

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    Re: California gay marriage ban overturned: report

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Pretty simple.

    "Marriage" is what was found to be constitutional. BASED on the fact that marriage was found a constitutional right, the equal protection clause stated that you can't discriminate without meeting the threshold allowing it. The threshold to descriminate on race wasn't reached, so discrimination of marriage laws against race was struck down.
    The cases involving Race and marriage centered around different race marriage being illegal and criminal activity. Since same sex marriage is not a criminal activity, I do not see a direct correlation between the two cases. The current argument is based on what benefits the government will bestow upon a couple that chooses to allow the government to "bless" their union. Government should remove itself from marriage in every way. Anything else discriminates against someone.
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    Re: California gay marriage ban overturned: report

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    I have proven just what I have claimed, that my position is based on actual evidence, not sayso. You then came in, said I was wrong, for no reason other than you said so, and offered zero backing evidence.
    You obviously don't understand and I'm bored now repeating myself. Your original position was that you had somehow "proved" that the district court case is not irrelevant because facts are "usually" determined at the district court level and Walker "made it difficult" for it to happen otherwise.

    Sorry you haven't proven anything. That's simple logic, no "backing evidence" required.

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    Re: California gay marriage ban overturned: report

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    You obviously don't understand and I'm bored now repeating myself. Your original position was that you had somehow "proved" that the district court case is not irrelevant because facts are "usually" determined at the district court level and Walker "made it difficult" for it to happen otherwise.

    Sorry you haven't proven anything. That's simple logic, no "backing evidence" required.
    Except that redress called on law scholars to back the assertion up. All you did was make meaningless decrees with no basis or support.

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    Re: California gay marriage ban overturned: report

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    That's fair. Just understand that I have a real hard time with your presentation here though...it's not the argument itself; its how you're kinda going out of your way to be a little offensive about it.
    And I apologize for that, but the notion of gay marriage is somewhat offensive to me in the first place. It's not something I want to have to address with my kids now, or ever.

    It's like the teachers who had to explain cum on a dress to 5th graders in 1998. Our president was boning the intern outside of marriage, and that character flaw of his had to be dealt with by parents and teachers across the country.

    I'm all for growth and the evolving of society, but to me, this is just an entirely unnecessary and frankly absurd "evolution" that isn't needed. Gays can live and prosper forever, and they can commit to each other however they wish. Just don't ask me to introduce to my 9-year-old that "this is Steve and his husband, Gary."

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