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Thread: California gay marriage ban overturned: report

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    Re: California gay marriage ban overturned: report

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    The right to contract is fundamental under the constitution, but minors cannot enter into contracts.

    The right to free speech is fundamental, but there are limits.

    The right to bear arms is fundamental, but there are limits.
    Are you making an argument? If so, I apologize I do not see it?


    Tim-
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    Re: California gay marriage ban overturned: report

    I grow weary of this thread............I think there is one thing we all can agree on.......This issue will go to the SCOTUS to be decided........In the end I am willing to abide by their decision............To all you "Feel good Libs" and gays out there are you willing to do the same????????????????????
    "God Bless Our Troops in Harms Way."

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    Re: California gay marriage ban overturned: report

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    And there are laws against hommosexual marriage yet you want to disregard those do you not so what is the difference?



    Exactly what we are saying
    Except that as has been pointed out before, you have to prove, at a minimum, a reasonable reason for that limit under the law. Get busy on that, since the lawyers who argued this case failed miserably. There are reasons for all those exceptions, so what is your reason for denying gays?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: California gay marriage ban overturned: report

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    The liberals here seem to shy away form the polygamy argument, as it tends to nullify the "fundamental" meaning of marriage. This is precisely my point. If marriage is so fundamental, then by what measure is it so? What is it about marriage that makes it fundamental, or inalieanable?

    Liberals care to weigh in?


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    I've addressed the polygamy argument numerous times and demonstrated that it is inconsistent and irrelevant with what we are discussing. Conservatives bring it up as a red herring.
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    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
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    Re: California gay marriage ban overturned: report

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    I grow weary of this thread............I think there is one thing we all can agree on.......This issue will go to the SCOTUS to be decided........In the end I am willing to abide by their decision............To all you "Feel good Libs" and gays out there are you willing to do the same????????????????????
    Bull. If they say that gays can marry, then you will be one of the people leading the charge to pass a Federal amendment to the Constitution defining marriage as between a man and a woman.

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    Re: California gay marriage ban overturned: report

    To help make this a bit more specific for people complaining about the polygamist stuff, so you know...maybe you can actually make an argument for it that addresses peoples points.

    In regards to equal protection there's two arguments being made.

    One held by myself, riv, and perhaps others, that this is a gender thing. Gender is already a defined status under the EPC that is of mid level protection requiring important state interest and substantial proof.

    One held by others is that sexual orientation should be covered under EPC. They tend to feel one of two ways:

    • 1. They feel that they should be there under the minimum scrutiny level "Rational Basis" and that even under that there is not enough proof to show that the the discrimination is rationally able to be shown to serve a legitimate state interest.

      2. They feel that they should be there under the Quasi-Suspect middle tier at the very least, requiring an equal amount of proof and need as gender does. And possibly even arguing equal to the top tier "Strict Scrutiny". They feel this way because there's a large amount of legitimate evidence that suggests homosexual orientation is, in many if not most cases, a natural occuring thing that one is born with akin to race or sex.


    Finally, the argument from both in regards to equal protection and why it does not account for polygamists is as generall as follows. "How many people" is not a protected status of some sort under the EPC, and saying "Its not equal that he can marry one person but I can't marry two" is not evidence of inequality based on a protected status of any kind.

    Additionally, there is a far stronger argument for state interest in preventing polygamists marriages then there is in gay marriages. And it can be made without the typical hyperbolic stereotypes of pedophilia or incest. The implimentation of polygamist marriages opens the door for a significant hinderance on the U.S. and States court systems due to the numerous issues surrounding polygamy. Take for example the ability for the spouse to have the final say over health decisions...when there is multiple spouses if they disagree then this becomes a legal issue that will bog down the courts. The only alternative to this would be to be able to designate certain spouses as somehow special and having more of the benefits than others, but that in and of itself creates a government imposed unequal designation. Additionally it opens up a far more glaring and damaging issue for the government in regards to the tax abilities regarding marriage by allowign people to create extremely long chains of individuals all connected with regards to the tax benefits where as the current "two people" limit provides a reasonable limit on the connections that keeps its impact from reaching the point where it would reach government interest.

    So to truly use the polygamist argument against people making the EPC claims to suggest they're hypocritical one must:

    1. Provide a legitimate argument as to how and why Polygamy should be or is a protected EPC class of equal or greater level to the class they're suggesting is the reason for same sex marriage is.

    2. Provide a legitimate argument as to why the arguments for government interest against polygamy are incorrect.

    3. Provide a legitimate argument as to why there is as pertinent of arguments for government interest against same sex marriage as there is for polygamy.

    Enjoy.

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    Re: California gay marriage ban overturned: report

    OK, I have a question for our legal experts on both sides. I am, admittedly not a legal expert, though I have learned alot in my time on this board. Sometimes it is best to reach out and ask for input from people who know more:

    The ruling on Prop 8 says that this state law violated the constitution. The ruling in the DOMA case said in part that DOMA violated a states right to regulate marriage. I can, I think see ways these can be reconciled, but is there an easy way to do so? Is winning on one mean a loss on the other?
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: California gay marriage ban overturned: report

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    Of course it applies, but only as an illustration to make a point.


    Tim-
    Of course it doesn't apply. It illustrates a different argument with differen parameters. The only point it makes is a red herring point.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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    Re: California gay marriage ban overturned: report

    did you hear what obama said about gay marriage when our gay neighbors and friends had their backs turned...

    pedophilia

    that's gotta hurt

    why doesn't barry agree with all the refined constitutionalists of dp?

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    Re: California gay marriage ban overturned: report

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    Step up? I've been stepping up since I entered the thread.. LOL
    You have never once given an example of how my arguments regarding the constitutionality of allowing same sex marriage also applies to polygamy. Not once. So don't put forth a broad challenge to people for ignoring your comments on polygamy when you are ignoring people making arguments against said arguments.

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