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Gunman Kills Self and Others at CT Company

Truth be told, after the loss of life (which trumps all and probably should have its own and separate thread) perhaps the GREATEST tragedy isnt that individuals werent allowed to be packin heat...its that we have been pussified to believe that when someone starts firing our best recourse is to hide and look for a safe place to die when the asshole shoots us or runs out of bullets. Unless we are talking a fully automatic weapon there are probably 101 different weapons within arms reach that any one or two people could employ that would either stop an individual or screw up their aim long enough to attack and disable them. And no...Im not talking about guerrila forces or special ops training. A set of keys, followed by a wallet, a pocket knife, a book, an iPod, a clipboard, or even a pen, then a cell phone in a barrage would make damn near anyone flinch even when holding a weapon. its unexpected and abnormal to stand unflinching while an object is flying at your eyes. We need to teach people to stop with the victim mentality. Lay down and die...dont worry, the cops will protect you.




Exactly....


When seconds matter the police are just minutes away.....


I repeat:

On Sheep, Wolves, and Sheepdogs - Dave Grossman
 
I agree that in hostage or very violent situations where a gunman assures impending harm, the best method is to simply kill him. It's not like his guilt is in question.

I do find it distasteful though that this incident is being used as part of the pro-gun agenda. Just because people can carry concealed in some areas does not mean that all factors would line up in their favor in a situation like this. Someone could pull a gun on him and easily get shot dead if he reacts fast enough. I mean, who knows how it could really go down in a situation that is so volatile and unpredictable. Adding more guns does not guarantee a positive outcome per se.





A gun and training simply increases ones chances of survival... What is distasteful in my opinion is that we breed complacency and victim hood, instead of courage and responsibility... How many were shot at at columbine? VT? Could a mentality of fight instead of surrender saved folk? Absolutely. Could a CCW carrier on campus reacted and quickly ended this? Absolutely...




We breed weakness and surrender into our children and that is a recipe for disaster. If a gunman walked into the office I was in, he'd need to shoot me first.... Otherwise, the distance would be closed before the first victim hit the floor....

If it were a place I was permitted to CC, he'd probably not get that far... :shrug:
 
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Hence my comments above. Gun proponents, most people aren't going to be carrying a weapon on their person or in their desk at work in corporate America, thus it wouldn't be accessible when needed it in a scenario like this. Gun opponents, you can't outlaw crazy. Banning guns just leads to criminals being the only ones with guns.

Mass killings are tragedies, but they are tragedies that are very difficult to prevent through gun possession/banning. That's the logical facts.



Completley disagree.... A trained armed civillian in these cases I have mentioned in my flury of posts could have (could have) been mitigated here. It's a sad testament to our reliance on others for our very lives.


On Sheep, Wolves, and Sheepdogs - Dave Grossman
 
Truth be told, after the loss of life (which trumps all and probably should have its own and separate thread) perhaps the GREATEST tragedy isnt that individuals werent allowed to be packin heat...its that we have been pussified to believe that when someone starts firing our best recourse is to hide and look for a safe place to die when the asshole shoots us or runs out of bullets. Unless we are talking a fully automatic weapon there are probably 101 different weapons within arms reach that any one or two people could employ that would either stop an individual or screw up their aim long enough to attack and disable them. And no...Im not talking about guerrila forces or special ops training. A set of keys, followed by a wallet, a pocket knife, a book, an iPod, a clipboard, or even a pen, then a cell phone in a barrage would make damn near anyone flinch even when holding a weapon. its unexpected and abnormal to stand unflinching while an object is flying at your eyes. We need to teach people to stop with the victim mentality. Lay down and die...dont worry, the cops will protect you.

Oh, I agree with you on that one. I worked for a police agency. The police aren't good at stopping mass killings, they are good at cleaning up after them. Except my buddy Dave, who stopped one in Salt Lake City by being quickly on the scene and shooting the perp.
 
I see your new item and raise you an instance of race baiting.

The man's family is saying that the shooter did this because of racism, which was the reason he was fired
.

The truth is that the shooter was fired for stealing beer.

This story has an eerie parallel, right from my own real life. Those who live in the Houston area may be familiar with the murder of the owner of a flower shop in Sugar Land, just outside of Houston. One of our technicians is going to be a witness in the capital murder trial of the perpetrator. In May, the flower shop was moving to a new location in the same building, and I sold the owner the refrigeration services for her move. After our technician finished his job, he was giving the invoice to the owner of the store, and was there when she fired an employee for theft, and told him that she was going to file charges against him. A week later, that same employee waited outside the store until it closed, followed the owner home, shot her between the eyes, took her body back to the property where the store was located, dumped the body in the artificial lake behind the property, then fled with her car and credit cards. He was apprehended in Mississippi, and brought back to Sugar Land to stand trial for capital murder. There is no doubt that he is going to get the death penalty upon conviction. Guess what the killer's father is claiming? Yup, you guessed it. Racism.

Yes, there is still racism in America, and I would like to see it all go away. But it won't. Part of the reason is that racism is something that is strongly ingrained in some people, who will always hate. But another part of the reason is that some people choose to race bait instead of taking responsibility for their actions, or the actions of their loved ones. And, as long as race baiting exists, it will be another factor that enables racism. Fact is, racism or not, the shooter here, as well as the Sugar Land flower shop killer, is a murderer. No amount of race baiting is going to mitigate the obvious.
 
I think more accurate; Most mass shooting take place where people gather in large numbers. They generally occur in places of business. Most business, to my knowledge, don't allow their employees to carry concealed weapons to work even if the state allows.
 
I think more accurate; Most mass shooting take place where people gather in large numbers. They generally occur in places of business. Most business, to my knowledge, don't allow their employees to carry concealed weapons to work even if the state allows.

I was going to mention this. Most places the Constitution isn't even a factor. Essentially, insurance companies tell people they can't bring guns to work. These types of incidents are relatively rare.
 
I think more accurate; Most mass shooting take place where people gather in large numbers. They generally occur in places of business. Most business, to my knowledge, don't allow their employees to carry concealed weapons to work even if the state allows.

true-places where there are lots of people who are disarmed--schools are popular as are malls. Some places with lots of people that don't have active shooters murdering people

The Grand American Trapshoot-6,000 plus people carrying 12 g shotguns.

Gun shows

The National Rifle and Pistol Championships in Camp Perry Ohio

NASCAR races

Police academies and "hot" army bases.

the mass murders at Ft Hood were in an area where 99% of the soldiers were not permitted to carry weapons.
 
I was going to mention this. Most places the Constitution isn't even a factor. Essentially, insurance companies tell people they can't bring guns to work. These types of incidents are relatively rare.

I am curious, I have never heard of this being all that common. I know the gun shop and shooting range that I frequent has all its employees armed and I believe that is a requirement by the insurance company. Funny how no one has tried a robbery there during times the place is likely to be occupied
 
I am curious, I have never heard of this being all that common. I know the gun shop and shooting range that I frequent has all its employees armed and I believe that is a requirement by the insurance company. Funny how no one has tried a robbery there during times the place is likely to be occupied

Most employers have a weapons policy. Employers could find themselves being sued if something happened after they allowed everyone to bring firearms to work. Their legal advice would be to stay away from that policy and I'm sure insurance companies would refuse to insure them or make them pay substantially for it.
 
Most employers have a weapons policy. Employers could find themselves being sued if something happened after they allowed everyone to bring firearms to work. Their legal advice would be to stay away from that policy and I'm sure insurance companies would refuse to insure them or make them pay substantially for it.

This is exactly right. Even though I work with law enforcement, we would NEVER be allowed to carry weapons in our building. THis is true for 99.9% of corporate America.
 
when Ohio passed its law there was a provision that places of business were not liable for either not allowing people to carry who then are assaulted or for letting people carry who shoot a bystander. Our firearms coalition handed out cards telling anti gun businesses that we wouldn't patronize them. I'd say most of the businesses allow guns in OHio but some big office buildings do not
 
when Ohio passed its law there was a provision that places of business were not liable for either not allowing people to carry who then are assaulted or for letting people carry who shoot a bystander. Our firearms coalition handed out cards telling anti gun businesses that we wouldn't patronize them. I'd say most of the businesses allow guns in OHio but some big office buildings do not

Do they allow people to carry in places that serve alcohol? Do they serve alcohol in Ohio?
 
Do they allow people to carry in places that serve alcohol? Do they serve alcohol in Ohio?

they are amending the law so that you can go into a bar with a CW as long as you don't drink. being under the influence and carrying is a violation of state law whether you have a permit or not-open or concealed carry. I strongly support that change in the law
 
It remains true that mass murderers almost always strike where people are vulnerable and security is light or unarmed. Mostly, this means areas where law-abiding cits are disarmed.
 
It remains true that mass murderers almost always strike where people are vulnerable and security is light or unarmed. Mostly, this means areas where law-abiding cits are disarmed.

just as the gun banners intend it to be
 
Most employers have a weapons policy. Employers could find themselves being sued if something happened after they allowed everyone to bring firearms to work. Their legal advice would be to stay away from that policy and I'm sure insurance companies would refuse to insure them or make them pay substantially for it.
Got a source for that little factoid?

.
 
Got a source for that little factoid?

.

Don't know why you'd need one. Assuming you pay attention to employer's rules and posted rules at various biz's, it is obvious.

I've talked to many businesses about their "no guns" policies, and it usually boils down to them doing what their insurance company tells them to do, in order to keep their coverage.

If the liability laws were changed, the anti-gun stance o many business might change and we actually might not have so many successful mass shootings. I'd like to see something like this: "No business that permits citizens with carry permits to carry their weapons shall be held liable for actions of such persons. Any business that disallows lawful concealed carry without compelling reasons (ie chemical plant} may be liable for criminal injury suffered by disarmed patrons, visitors or employees."
 
If the liability laws were changed, the anti-gun stance o many business might change and we actually might not have so many successful mass shootings. I'd like to see something like this: "No business that permits citizens with carry permits to carry their weapons shall be held liable for actions of such persons. Any business that disallows lawful concealed carry without compelling reasons (ie chemical plant} may be liable for criminal injury suffered by disarmed patrons, visitors or employees."

I don't really know if I WANT my employer to pass those kinds of laws. The closest I've come to being shot was in a police department, when a narcotics detective down the hall was cleaning his gun and it misfired through the wall above my head.

When I think about the stupidity of many people, I have to say...I don't want those numbskulls carrying guns.
 
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