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GOP leader McConnell: Fourteenth Amendment is in need of review

The underclass is growing, since the Liberals took over the government.

The underclass began growing in the early 2000s after Republican took over.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/31/national/31census.html

Despite more jobs, US poverty rate rises / The Christian Science Monitor - CSMonitor.com

Yes, it's continued upward thanks to the Recession - which also began while Bush was in office; and was actually - according to many experts - the result of the widening of the gap between rich and poor.

Trends in American Income Inequality Prior to the Recession-Becker - The Becker-Posner Blog

No Recession for Millionaires as Income Inequality Continues to Increase « The Washington Independent

Income Gaps Between Very Rich and Everyone Else More Than Tripled In Last Three Decades, New Data Show — Center on Budget and Policy Priorities
 
In this country the sins of the mother are not visited on her child; in America a child enters the world innocent and a full citizen of this country. Can you imagine a twenty five year old who has lived their entire life as an American being told that because it was just discovered that their mother wasn't here legally, something they had no knowledge of or certainly any responsibility for, that they themselves are no longer to be treated as a citizen? It's outrageous and bizarre. Addled brained conservatives (not all conservatives, just the really ****ed up ones) endorse such notions.

If we were to amend the constitution to add a requirement that the mother must be in the U.S. legally, it would not be applied retroactively...
 
If we were to amend the constitution to add a requirement that the mother must be in the U.S. legally, it would not be applied retroactively...

You obviously don't get the point. What would happen if a twenty-five year person's mother turned out to be in the country illegally at the time of their birth? All those twenty five years they thought they were a citizen of the only country they have ever known. Would they no longer be a citizen? Would they be in this country illegally? What country would they "belong" to?
 
You obviously don't get the point. What would happen if a twenty-five year person's mother turned out to be in the country illegally at the time of their birth? All those twenty five years they thought they were a citizen of the only country they have ever known. Would they no longer be a citizen? Would they be in this country illegally? What country would they "belong" to?

You like "what ifs" don't you? Unfortunately, because the government isn't doing its job, there is a remote possibility of this happening. I say -- too bad... if you are not legally in the U.S., your children don't get citizenship. You know, there are MANY countries in the world where you do NOT get citizenship simply by being born there...
 
You like "what ifs" don't you? Unfortunately, because the government isn't doing its job, there is a remote possibility of this happening. I say -- too bad... if you are not legally in the U.S., your children don't get citizenship. You know, there are MANY countries in the world where you do NOT get citizenship simply by being born there...

Really?.. name 194.

Hint: All but the US.
 
Really?.. name 194.

Hint: All but the US.

Actually, not quite. Canada, Paraguay and Mexico have birthright citizenship, France gives those born there the right to choose to become French citizens later, Greece has conditional birthright citizenship. Surely, there are others...

Citizenship gained by soil or blood | Worldfocus
Canadian Citizenship Act and current issues(BP-445E). Natural-Born Citizens(txt)

It is interesting that some countries have eliminated birthright citizenship in recent years, including New Zealand, Ireland and in some cases, the United Kingdom.

In Taiwan, you used to only get citizenship if the FATHER was a citizen, but now you acquire it if either parent is a citizen.
 

Was there a point to this?

I didn't think so.

You are dismissed.

You post content that was posted on other sites without any attribution. Are you the author?

I've been a member of another forum where a contributor was simply copying and pasting content from other sites without any acknowledgment that he was not the author. I guess it made him feel important or smart or hot **** or whatever, I don't know. What I know was he was a ****ing scumbag who didn't know ****.

I just wondered whether you were one of those …
 
You post content that was posted on other sites without any attribution. Are you the author?

I've been a member of another forum where a contributor was simply copying and pasting content from other sites without any acknowledgment that he was not the author. I guess it made him feel important or smart or hot **** or whatever, I don't know. What I know was he was a ****ing scumbag who didn't know ****.

I just wondered whether you were one of those …

Same tactic again, I wonder if this works? Will I persuade people by ignoring what they are saying and starting a mild attack on them? Maybe noone will notice? Hmmm
 
You are hopelessly misled by conservative flim-flam artists who have absolutely no clue what that language means and don't want to know. Children of foreign emissaries or enemy soldiers were excluded. Vicious conservatives intentionally misread these phrases to mean more people, many more people, maybe some members of your family, maybe you. Yes, let's see if we can find a reason to exclude you, alleged citizen!

Curious. Do you believe that the Constitution is a living, breathing document which needs to be interpreted according to the needs of the day?
 
You obviously don't get the point. What would happen if a twenty-five year person's mother turned out to be in the country illegally at the time of their birth? All those twenty five years they thought they were a citizen of the only country they have ever known. Would they no longer be a citizen? Would they be in this country illegally? What country would they "belong" to?

IMO, the 14th amendment should be looked at in historical contect. When you do, the answer is simple, No they should not be granted citizenship. I will say that in this example of yours a process to allow them to apply would be warrented. The parents, not so much.
The 14th Amendment to the United States Constitution - Fourteenth Amendment - anchor babies and birthright citizenship - interpretations and misinterpretations - US Constitution

"The United States did not limit immigration in 1868 when the Fourteenth Amendment was ratified. Thus there were, by definition, no illegal immigrants and the issue of citizenship for children of those here in violation of the law was nonexistent. Granting of automatic citizenship to children of illegal alien mothers is a recent and totally inadvertent and unforeseen result of the amendment and the Reconstructionist period in which it was ratified. "
In 1866, Senator Jacob Howard clearly spelled out the intent of the 14th Amendment by stating:

"Every person born within the limits of the United States, and subject to their jurisdiction, is by virtue of natural law and national law a citizen of the United States. This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons. It settles the great question of citizenship and removes all doubt as to what persons are or are not citizens of the United States. This has long been a great desideratum in the jurisprudence and legislation of this country."

This understanding was reaffirmed by Senator Edward Cowan, who stated:

"[A foreigner in the United States] has a right to the protection of the laws; but he is not a citizen in the ordinary acceptance of the word..."

The phrase "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" was intended to exclude American-born persons from automatic citizenship whose allegiance to the United States was not complete. With illegal aliens who are unlawfully in the United States, their native country has a claim of allegiance on the child. Thus, the completeness of their allegiance to the United States is impaired, which therefore precludes automatic citizenship. "

"The correct interpretation of the 14th Amendment is that an illegal alien mother is subject to the jurisdiction of her native country, as is her baby. "

Hopefully, when the SC takes on immigration they will correctly rule that the parents native country applies to the offspring.
 
Curious. Do you believe that the Constitution is a living, breathing document which needs to be interpreted according to the needs of the day?
Of course it is, it was written by politicans of the time. Does the word "arms" have the same meaning today as it did when the Second Amendment was written? Are we to presume that weapons meant only what was available at the time?
 
Of course it is, it was written by politicans of the time. Does the word "arms" have the same meaning today as it did when the Second Amendment was written? Are we to presume that weapons meant only what was available at the time?

1) I'm asking Chappy, not you. It was a specific response to his post, not a general question.

2) I didn't say anything about arms, guns, or the Second Amendment.
 
We MUST go back to strict constitutional standards that made this country great!

Except **** we don't like, let's just delete those parts. FOUNDING FATHERS!
 
How sad is it that conservatives want to change the fourteenth amendment and in the same breath say it already says what they want to change it to? Leave it to the conservatives!


Conservatives must be very intelligent! … Or, insane! …

I asked you a question.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/break...h-amendment-need-review-7.html#post1058905302

So, unless your shtick is simply to flamebait and never actually discuss anything, please oblige.
 
How sad is it that conservatives want to change the fourteenth amendment and in the same breath say it already says what they want to change it to? Leave it to the conservatives!



Conservatives must be very intelligent! … Or, insane! …

care to respond to my post 62. It puts the 14th in proper prospective. You seem to ignore information that goes against your opinion.
 
You like "what ifs" don't you? Unfortunately, because the government isn't doing its job, there is a remote possibility of this happening. I say -- too bad... if you are not legally in the U.S., your children don't get citizenship. You know, there are MANY countries in the world where you do NOT get citizenship simply by being born there...

Just because other countries do it doesn't mean we should. I see no reason why we should change our laws just because another country does. Do you want to switch to a parliamentary system too?
 
Oh...and look at your California economy...who is in control of legislation there? And how is THAT working out? And damn near every other welfare sta...I mean blue state in the country for that matter...

You clearly have no idea what's going on in this state, or what the roots of our troubles are. Please shut your mouth and educate yourself on the effect that a 2/3 budget requirement and an initiative system run amok has had on our state.
 
Same tactic again, I wonder if this works? Will I persuade people by ignoring what they are saying and starting a mild attack on them? Maybe noone will notice? Hmmm

Don't worry about it.... Chappy is good at ignoring facts if it goes against his agenda.
 
Some people offer opinions that are based on personal expertise or are carefully considered and based on publicly available material which they identify and often link to. I appreciate when they post even when they are polar opposites to my politics. And, in some cases, I take the time to follow the links and I learn what other people are reading. I frequently don't feel obliged to reply, though; my goal is to share my thinking and learn what others are thinking, not to persuade or be persuaded.

All the other crap that gets posted, I basically ignore. It's awful easy to post nonsense culled from other nonsense. Anonymous posters demanding replies from other anonymous posters is just too ludicrous. There are chat rooms for such interactions. It just clutters up the thread in my opinion.

But, hey, to each his own.
 
Some people offer opinions that are based on personal expertise or are carefully considered and based on publicly available material which they identify and often link to. I appreciate when they post even when they are polar opposites to my politics. And, in some cases, I take the time to follow the links and I learn what other people are reading. I frequently don't feel obliged to reply, though; my goal is to share my thinking and learn what others are thinking, not to persuade or be persuaded.

All the other crap that gets posted, I basically ignore. It's awful easy to post nonsense culled from other nonsense. Anonymous posters demanding replies from other anonymous posters is just too ludicrous. There are chat rooms for such interactions. It just clutters up the thread in my opinion.

But, hey, to each his own.

And yet the post you were bitching about gave references for every point made, and every historical speech…. Funny how you missed debating the issue and went straight to attack the poster mode.

Says volumes about your ability to refute any of it.
 
For all the “historical context” that's being offered up on the Internet, the reality is the argument about birthright citizenship has already been to the Supreme Court.

Excerpted from “Citizenship From Birth Is Challenged on the Right” By JULIA PRESTON, The New York Times, Published: August 6, 2010
… [[SIZE="+2"]G[/SIZE]]iving citizenship to everyone born in the United States has been the practice since the 1860s, and was upheld by the Supreme Court on the few occasions when it was tested there, immigration lawyers said. A change to the law to disallow the children of illegal immigrants would vastly increase the undocumented population, lawyers said, rather than reducing it. Babies born to Mexican mothers here illegally, for example, would become illegal Mexican immigrants from the moment of birth.

“You would be perpetuating a large undocumented population, with all these children growing up very much living in the shadows,” said Hiroshi Motomura, an immigration law professor at the University of California, Los Angeles.

Mr. Graham’s proposal revived a popular misunderstanding: In the often heated debate over birthright citizenship, pundits refer to the problem of “anchor babies,” and talk show callers express frustration that pregnant women could cross the border from Mexico illegally, then rely on their American citizen newborns to put them immediately on a path to citizenship.

In fact, under immigration law American citizen children must wait until they are 21 years old to apply for legal residency for their parents.
Also, most of the illegal immigrants who have children who are American citizens have not recently arrived.

I personally feel it is deplorable that Senator Lindsey Graham (R-SC) has proposed amending the Constitution. But that's just a huge time consuming distraction; the fourteenth amendment will never be altered and birthright citizen will remain.

Conservatives who are so hot about “anchor babies” demonstrate their ignorance of the real immigration issues challenging this country. They appear to be looking for somebody to blame all their troubles on; but, they don't want somebody who can actually fight back! They want someone vulnerable, someone who can't defend themselves. Their latest victims? “Anchor babies.” Good grief!
 
And yet the post you were bitching about gave references for every point made, and every historical speech…. Funny how you missed debating the issue and went straight to attack the poster mode.

Says volumes about your ability to refute any of it.

You deserve “special treatment” as an offender of the first order, copying and pasting. You never did own up either. Shameless, too, aye.
 
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