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Thread: GOP leader McConnell: Fourteenth Amendment is in need of review

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    Re: GOP leader McConnell: Fourteenth Amendment is in need of review

    Quote Originally Posted by Crunch View Post
    I don't know why people can't read a simple sentence and understand what is being said.

    Here is the problem part.



    Now people are taking "jurisdiction" to mean what a cop means when he says it's out of my jurisdiction.... or out of my city/county.

    If that were so the above quoted sentence would read....

    1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and born in the United States, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.

    Rather redundant isn't it?

    So what does “and subject to the jurisdiction thereof” mean?

    Fortunately, we have the highest possible authority on record to answer this question of how the term "jurisdiction" was to be interpreted and applied, the author of the citizenship clause, Sen. Jacob M. Howard (MI) to tell us exactly what it means and its intended scope as he introduced it to the United States Senate in 1866:
    Mr. HOWARD: I now move to take up House joint resolution No. 127.
    The motion was agreed to; and the Senate, as in Committee of the Whole, resumed the consideration of the joint resolution (H.R. No. 127) proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the United States.
    The first amendment is to section one, declaring that all "persons born in the United States and Subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the States wherein they reside. I do not propose to say anything on that subject except that the question of citizenship has been fully discussed in this body as not to need any further elucidation, in my opinion. This amendment which I have offered is simply declaratory of what I regard as the law of the land already, that every person born within the limits of the United States, and subject to their jurisdiction, is by virtue of natural law and national law a citizen of the United States. This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons. It settles the great question of citizenship and removes all doubt as to what persons are or are not citizens of the United States. This has long been a great desideratum in the jurisprudence and legislation of this country.

    Sen. Lyman Trumbull, Chairman of the Judiciary Committee, author of the Thirteenth Amendment, and the one who inserted the phrase:
    [T]he provision is, that 'all persons born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens.' That means 'subject to the complete jurisdiction thereof.' What do we mean by 'complete jurisdiction thereof?' Not owing allegiance to anybody else. That is what it means.

    Sen. W. Williams:
    In one sense, all persons born within the geographical limits of the United States are subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, but they are not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States in every sense. Take the child of an ambassador. In one sense, that child born in the United States is subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, because if that child commits the crime of murder, or commits any other crime against the laws of the country, to a certain extent he is subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, but not in every respect; and so with these Indians. All persons living within a judicial district may be said, in one sense, to be subject to the jurisdiction of the court in that district, but they are not in every sense subject to the jurisdiction of the court until they are brought, by proper process, within the reach of the power of the court. I understand the words here, 'subject to the jurisdiction of the United States,' to mean fully and completely subject to the jurisdiction of the United States.
    I don't know why people don't understand that an Amendment could change that.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: GOP leader McConnell: Fourteenth Amendment is in need of review

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    I don't know why people don't understand that an Amendment could change that.
    Why would you want to change it?..... are you in favor of "anchor babies"?
    There is no such thing as a “Natural Born Dual-Citizen“.

    Originally Posted by PogueMoran
    I didnt have to read the article to tell you that you cant read.

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    Re: GOP leader McConnell: Fourteenth Amendment is in need of review

    Quote Originally Posted by Crunch View Post
    Why would you want to change it?..... are you in favor of "anchor babies"?
    I think I'd have to answer no, although cautiously, thinking of unintended consequences. ;-) As the 14th Amendment stands, anchor babies are citizens. No one disputes that. These hearings would open that interpretation up for RE-interpretation -- or to simply negate the 14th with another amendment.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: GOP leader McConnell: Fourteenth Amendment is in need of review

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    I think I'd have to answer no, although cautiously, thinking of unintended consequences. ;-) As the 14th Amendment stands, anchor babies are citizens. No one disputes that. These hearings would open that interpretation up for RE-interpretation -- or to simply negate the 14th with another amendment.
    Read my post #10..... read all of it..... read it slowly and think about what I wrote.

    The 14th amendment in no way, shape, or form admits anchor babies.
    There is no such thing as a “Natural Born Dual-Citizen“.

    Originally Posted by PogueMoran
    I didnt have to read the article to tell you that you cant read.

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    Re: GOP leader McConnell: Fourteenth Amendment is in need of review

    Quote Originally Posted by Crunch View Post
    Read my post #10..... read all of it..... read it slowly and think about what I wrote.

    The 14th amendment in no way, shape, or form admits anchor babies.
    Crunch, I understand what you're saying. But this is just derailing the intent of this thread. As of today in the United States of America anchor babies are citizens. Until the interpretation is changed by the Supreme Court of the United States or another Amendment is ratified they will continue to be citizens of the United States.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: GOP leader McConnell: Fourteenth Amendment is in need of review

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Crunch, I understand what you're saying. But this is just derailing the intent of this thread. As of today in the United States of America anchor babies are citizens. Until the interpretation is changed by the Supreme Court of the United States or another Amendment is ratified they will continue to be citizens of the United States.
    That's true... but if a person reads the amendment and the back ground to the amendment, they will realize the amendment doesn't need to be changed... it just needs to be interpreted correctly (plain English) and applied. Unfortunately we have some very uneducated people on this board and in Congress that don't understand anything but their own narrow ideas and desires.

    Hopefully a hearing and investigation by the Congress would clear up the anchor baby problem..... assuming of course that they can read and understand plain English.
    There is no such thing as a “Natural Born Dual-Citizen“.

    Originally Posted by PogueMoran
    I didnt have to read the article to tell you that you cant read.

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    Re: GOP leader McConnell: Fourteenth Amendment is in need of review

    Quote Originally Posted by Crunch View Post
    That's true... but if a person reads the amendment and the back ground to the amendment, they will realize the amendment doesn't need to be changed... it just needs to be interpreted correctly (plain English) and applied. Unfortunately we have some very uneducated people on this board and in Congress that don't understand anything but their own narrow ideas and desires.

    Hopefully a hearing and investigation by the Congress would clear up the anchor baby problem..... assuming of course that they can read and understand plain English.
    Maybe what's needed is for Arizona (?) to challenge the 14th Amendment. ;-)
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: GOP leader McConnell: Fourteenth Amendment is in need of review

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    I think this is just an attempt to claim the Republicans aren't doing anything that's undermined by the fact that you are bitching about them trying to do something you just happen not to like.
    Again, you applaud them for doing something that absolutely won't work and won't happen. It's also not a "conservative" solution; it's a radical solution.

    They could sit down and craft a bill that would end it and make some compromises that would get it passed. Instead, they talk about amending the Constitution - which, even if it did work, would take YEARS to ratify it. Keep in mind, the 26th Amendment was proposed in 1954 and passed in 1971. The 27th Amendment took 202 years.

    It's a non-solution for political purposes and it's obviously working on the masses because right here people are pretending it's a good idea.

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    Re: GOP leader McConnell: Fourteenth Amendment is in need of review

    Quote Originally Posted by FilmFestGuy View Post
    Again, you applaud them for doing something that absolutely won't work and won't happen.
    I haven't applauded anyone. What I have pointed out is that you are griping, saying they have no solutions, when you are sitting there bitching about one of their solutions.

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    Re: GOP leader McConnell: Fourteenth Amendment is in need of review

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    I haven't applauded anyone. What I have pointed out is that you are griping, saying they have no solutions, when you are sitting there bitching about one of their solutions.
    And how successful was their push to alter the Constitution to ban gay marriage? Didn't happen. Not even close.

    They just told their base that to make them happy.

    This is just what they're doing again. Trust me, it's nothing but a calculated political move.

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