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Thread: GOP leader McConnell: Fourteenth Amendment is in need of review

  1. #131
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    Re: GOP leader McConnell: Fourteenth Amendment is in need of review

    Quote Originally Posted by Chappy View Post
    One conservative has opted-out of the conversation; perhaps he no longer wishes to associate himself with the addle-brained conservatives who can't even follow the logic of their own position on the issue. Or willfully ignore how birthright citizenship historically has prevented a permanent underclass from forming here. Or how some conservatives by viciously attacking birthright citizenship, far from “conserving” American ideals, are effectively tearing them down.

    Perhaps, it is anyone of these things but, no, I rather think this departing conservative has left the conversation because he didn't want to answer a simple question: under his own proposal, can he prove he is a citizen of this country? As it turns out such a simple question is not so easy to answer if a birth certificate with an American address is insufficient. One has to trace the legal status of your ancestors in this country, demonstrating an unbroken chain of citizenship to establish your own. It could get complicated. Papers get lost. Do step-fathers count? And, what if one of those ancestors turned out to be illegal. Would that make you one-quarter non citizen? One eighth? Are you less a citizen then? Maybe you only get to vote in three out of four elections. Or do you get to vote at all? And, of course, your standing as a citizen could be diminished further by one new discovery in the family's past, or, one slightly more restrictive law on citizenship requirements. America has been there, done that.

    And, what of the other conservative? Will he now trace his citizenship for us so that we may know his bona fides? A simple question, yes?
    Are you referring to me? Do you think I'm at your beck and call to answer your points at the exact time you want me to? If so, you are deluded beyond measure.

    Also, Chappy, you have a notorious record of bailing from threads, and threads of your own creation most of the time.

    But I agree with Right, and here's why: this is yet another of a long line of deflections and distractions that you've put up throughout this thread. My citizenship is irrelevant. I could grant you that I can't prove anything, and it still doesn't answer what I said, not in the least.

    Continued deflection only indicates that it's you who are "opting out."
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

  2. #132
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    Re: GOP leader McConnell: Fourteenth Amendment is in need of review

    I'll take that as a ‘No.’
    “Real environmentalists live in cities, and they visit what's left of the wilderness as gently and respectfully as possible.” — Donna Moulton, letter to the editor, Tucson Weekly, published on August 23, 2001

  3. #133
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    Re: GOP leader McConnell: Fourteenth Amendment is in need of review

    Quote Originally Posted by Chappy View Post
    I'll take that as a ‘No.’
    And I'll take that as definitive that you're not going to bother answering the actual points, and you're going to stick to your deflections, red herrings, and distraction. Thus, you bail.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

  4. #134
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    Re: GOP leader McConnell: Fourteenth Amendment is in need of review

    Quote Originally Posted by Chappy View Post
    One conservative has opted-out of the conversation; perhaps he no longer wishes to associate himself with the addle-brained conservatives who can't even follow the logic of their own position on the issue. Or willfully ignore how birthright citizenship historically has prevented a permanent underclass from forming here. Or how some conservatives by viciously attacking birthright citizenship, far from “conserving” American ideals, are effectively tearing them down.

    Perhaps, it is anyone of these things but, no, I rather think this departing conservative has left the conversation because he didn't want to answer a simple question: under his own proposal, can he prove he is a citizen of this country? As it turns out such a simple question is not so easy to answer if a birth certificate with an American address is insufficient. One has to trace the legal status of your ancestors in this country, demonstrating an unbroken chain of citizenship to establish your own. It could get complicated. Papers get lost. Do step-fathers count? And, what if one of those ancestors turned out to be illegal. Would that make you one-quarter non citizen? One eighth? Are you less a citizen then? Maybe you only get to vote in three out of four elections. Or do you get to vote at all? And, of course, your standing as a citizen could be diminished further by one new discovery in the family's past, or, one slightly more restrictive law on citizenship requirements. America has been there, done that.

    And, what of the other conservative? Will he now trace his citizenship for us so that we may know his bona fides? A simple question, yes?

    Not at all Chappy, I've known you to do this exact type of thing before, it's called obfuscation, and argumentum ad ignorantiam, a proven false dichotomy. Although you think this sort of thing may work among the diversity of a message board due to the number of words you post, it doesn't work because it is a fallacy.

    One of the areas you fail to address in your world without borders rants is that in the United States, under Federal laws, these are the laws that Obama want's to reign supreme in this case, also call for the carrying of a green card at all times, and able to produce said valid green card upon request of law enforcement.

    So are you saying that the Federal law should be abolished? And if so, do we even have a country at that point?

    The call to strengthen our borders is not one of bigotry or anything even close, it is a national security issue as it should be.

    Hezbollah is using the same southern narcotics routes that Mexican drug kingpins do to smuggle drugs and people into the United States, reaping money to finance its operations and threatening U.S. national security, current and former U.S. law enforcement, defense and counterterrorism officials say.

    The Iran-backed Lebanese group has long been involved in narcotics and human trafficking in South America's tri-border region of Paraguay, Argentina and Brazil. Increasingly, however, it is relying on Mexican narcotics syndicates that control access to transit routes into the U.S.

    EXCLUSIVE: Hezbollah uses Mexican drug routes into U.S. - Washington Times
    This red herring you throw out there about having every citizen prove their citizenship is a farce and you know it. We should be sticking to the issue, and that issue is border security first!

    j-mac
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  5. #135
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    Re: GOP leader McConnell: Fourteenth Amendment is in need of review

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Not at all Chappy, I've known you to do this exact type of thing before, it's called obfuscation, and argumentum ad ignorantiam, a proven false dichotomy. Although you think this sort of thing may work among the diversity of a message board due to the number of words you post, it doesn't work because it is a fallacy.

    One of the areas you fail to address in your world without borders rants is that in the United States, under Federal laws, these are the laws that Obama want's to reign supreme in this case, also call for the carrying of a green card at all times, and able to produce said valid green card upon request of law enforcement.

    So are you saying that the Federal law should be abolished? And if so, do we even have a country at that point?

    The call to strengthen our borders is not one of bigotry or anything even close, it is a national security issue as it should be.



    This red herring you throw out there about having every citizen prove their citizenship is a farce and you know it. We should be sticking to the issue, and that issue is border security first!

    j-mac
    QFT. And this rant has to do with birthright citizenship in what way?
    “Real environmentalists live in cities, and they visit what's left of the wilderness as gently and respectfully as possible.” — Donna Moulton, letter to the editor, Tucson Weekly, published on August 23, 2001

  6. #136
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    Re: GOP leader McConnell: Fourteenth Amendment is in need of review

    Quote Originally Posted by Chappy View Post
    QFT. And this rant has to do with birthright citizenship in what way?
    In that the call for this absurd repeal movement is nonsense. We must stick to controlling our borders first, then we can deal with the other aspects of who is here already.


    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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