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Ground zero mosque wins key vote

MrVicchio said:
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Okay, Catz, My point against this Mosque is that it's being pushed for.. the Glory of Islam over the Enemy, (That'd be us for those of you that don't get it) and this Imam who is trying to build it, has shown he has a desire to push Sharia (a barbaric, and cruel system of religious control that violates basic human rights) Law in America.
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So what? Do these things overrule the right of individuals to dispose of their property as they see fit? Do you want government interference in religious thought, dictating who can build where, based upon what they believe?

MrVicchio said:
So which is right? The belief this Mosque is a Peace Beacon? Or an Emblem of Islamic Greatness.
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I don't believe either of these things. I believe that government shouldn't interfere in religious practice. As long as the building is legal according to the same standards used for other religious buildings, it should be allowed. I do not believe governments should be involved in religious discrimination.

I love ya Catz, I do, but you're on the wrong side here.
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No, dude. It's about the rule of law and remaing true to our core values of government non-interference in religion.
 
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Reverend_Hellh0und said:
Christianity has nothing to do with this. The fail is all yours
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Gee, Rev, I thought we were supposedly a Judeo-Christian nation with tolerance for all faiths.

Our values, our national character... is all that supposed to be Judeo-Christian in nature?

If you want to comment intelligently, feel free.
 
hazlnut said:
Gee, Rev, I thought we were supposedly a Judeo-Christian nation with tolerance for all faiths.

Our values, our national character... is all that supposed to be Judeo-Christian in nature?
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Strawman. Fail.




If you want to comment intelligently, feel free.
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I wouldn't want to have you feeling left out. :shrug:
 
MrVicchio said:
And your ignorance is the problem.

Forgiveness doesn't mean letting people **** on you. And that's what this Mosque is. Forgiveness doesn't do much when the purpose of the act, the Mosque, is to put up a giant Monument to the greatness of Islam at the site of it's greatest attack.

That's what this is gang, think whatever you want otherwise, this Mosque isn't about peace and understanding, it's about triumph and glory.

THEY KNOW that America is full of people that are soooo scared to offend Islam, that they MOCK YOU with acts like this. Until Islam as a whole undergoes a trans-formative movement (like Christianity did), you cannot trust Islam as a whole.

ARE THERE GOOD DECENT HONEST PEACE LOVING MUSLIMS? YOU BET YOUR ASS there are. And how many of them would think building this mosque, on this site was anything less then a provocative act? Hmm?

That's the point here folks. Some of you are so caught up in this IGNORANT "We must embrace Islam and think only GOOD or we're bigoted haters" mentality that you miss what's right before you! You miss the truth!

If they wanted to build an... Islamic Outreach Center near the WTC site, that's cool. But a MOSQUE has meaning, and most of you just think it's "church", that shows how little you understand what's really going on here.
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You serve your maters Sean and Glenn so well.

They really should promote you.

The fear, Vicchio, is coming from you and the fringe-right.

I don't fear muslims or islam or the peaceful practice of any faith.

I am concerned, however, about the tone of intolerance and hate in your response.

I'm sure your heros at Fox have presented you with all kinds of evidence as to why this is a dangerous thing, but have you taken a moment to peel back the layers and see for yourself if there is anything there, any intention or any real evidence. Or are Sean and Glenn just filling your head with more ginned up bull?

What's amazing to me, is how people conveniently ignore the violent laws and traditions in the Bible and history of violent acts by Christian extremists. The Grand Inquisitor makes the 9/11 terrorists look like a bunch of pikers. Any religious belief or dogma can be bent and twisted into a justification for violence. I know you're smart enough to understand that, and I believe this is really all about punditry and posturing on your part.
 
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Catz Part Deux said:
So what? Do these things overrule the right of individuals to dispose of their property as they see fit? Do you want government interference in religious thought, dictating who can build where, based upon what they believe?
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ask 58% in new york

it's a loser

in other words, go for it
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
Strawman. Fail.






I wouldn't want to have you feeling left out. :shrug:
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I was further clarifying my point.

If you want to specifically show out how that's a 'strawman'... please feel free.

I beginning to think my first post went right over your head. Perhaps you should re-read, paraphrase, think about it a while, then respond with a question if you don't understand something.

But just crying 'fail, fail' because you don't get it, is kind of childish.
 
The Prof said:
ask 58% in new york

it's a loser

in other words, go for it
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So, you would undermine core principles of our country, like the right to private property and the protection of religious expression to get votes?

I hope you never attain any power here.
 
hazlnut said:
I was further clarifying my point.

If you want to specifically show out how that's a 'strawman'... please feel free.

I beginning to think my first post went right over your head. Perhaps you should re-read, paraphrase, think about it a while, then respond with a question if you don't understand something.

But just crying 'fail, fail' because you don't get it, is kind of childish.
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I'm on my iphone so i'll embarass you more later. But its not just christians who think this imam and this "mosque" are being assholes......


Go google. :pimpdaddy:
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
I'm on my iphone so i'll embarass you more later. But its not just christians who think this imam and this "mosque" are being assholes......


Go google. :pimpdaddy:
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One thing I love about the U.S. is that it's not illegal to be an asshole. So, that's largely irrelevant.
 
Catz Part Deux said:
So, you would undermine core principles of our country, like the right to private property and the protection of religious expression to get votes?
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my personal opinions don't signify which is why i don't bring them up

it's all about the NEW YORKERS

and the rest of americans who VOTE

this issue is a loomingly large loser for leadership

go for it
 
The Prof said:
my personal opinions don't signify which is why i don't bring them up

it's all about the NEW YORKERS

and the rest of americans who VOTE

this issue is a loomingly large loser for leadership

go for it
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We are a nation of laws, not popularity polls. Since when did being popular matter more than FOLLOWING THE GODDAMN LAW?

Someone, please: make the stupid stop, it burns.
 
Catz Part Deux said:
Since when did being popular matter more than FOLLOWING THE GODDAMN LAW?
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calm down, you little wiener wannabe

since when did being popular matter?

since election day

go for it, by all means

seeya in november
 
The Prof said:
calm down, you little wiener wannabe

since when did being popular matter?

since election day

go for it, by all means

seeya in november
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It doesn't matter how popular someone is or by what margin they are elected, the government is still restricted. If 73% of Americans didn't want the mosque to be built, then 73% of Americans will be pissed off since there is nothing legally we can do about it. It doesn't matter who you put in. The Constitution is still there and it still must be followed. This mosque being built is nothing more than a consequence of freedom and it's a consequence we must understand and accept.
 
The Prof said:
if the goal really is tolerance, maybe THE IMAMS shouldn't be pissing off so many of THE NEW YORKERS
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The goal is upholding the rights and liberties of the individual. Let's not be stupid about this and pretend it's some craptastic PC BS thing. It is nothing more than ensuring the free exercise of our rights and liberties. The most fundamental of all ideals and ideologies of which the foundations of this country were built.
 
The Prof said:
they vote

so does the rest of the country

and if 58% of NEW YORKERS are pissed...
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Then 58% of New Yorkers will remained pissed seeing as there is nothing the government can rightfully and legally do to stop it. You're doing a great job highlighting the innate dangers of pure democracy though.
 
the goal, according to cordoba itself, is "improving muslim-west relations"

Home Page | Cordoba

it doesn't seem to be working

if imam faisel really wants to promote "understanding and healing, peace, collaboration and interdependence," then maybe he shouldn't be so dismissive of the overwhelming sentiment of his neighbors
 
Ikari said:
Then 58% of New Yorkers will remained pissed seeing as there is nothing the government can rightfully and legally do to stop it
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fine by me (if not completely true)

so leadership can just live with the consequences

You're doing a great job highlighting the innate dangers of pure democracy though.
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ok, it is what it is

it's how obama got elected

we all just gotta live with these things, i guess
 
Mayor Bloomberg: "With or without landmark designation, there is nothing in the law that would prevent the owners from opening a mosque within the existing building. The simple fact is this building is private property, and the owners have a right to use the building as a house of worship. The government has no right whatsoever to deny that right – and if it were tried, the courts would almost certainly strike it down as a violation of the U.S. Constitution.”
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Why do you hate the constitution, Prof?

Also, isn't Bloomberg a bit of a conservative???
 
I suppose I should be used to it, but the level of racism on display by opponents of the mosque continues to astound me. Are people really advocating that peaceful and law abiding Muslims (read: the vast majority of all Muslims, all people for that matter, are peaceful and law abiding) should just give up their legal rights because it may offend some people? Since when is offending ignorant bigots even worth consideration? As I recall, there were a lot of people who were "offended" when they desegregated public schools, and that is precisely the side of the argument that the people who oppose this mosque are falling on right now. I mean, this is just naked racism we're talking about! What on earth is wrong with you people?!
 
ask FIFTY EIGHT percent in new york
 
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