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Thread: Ground zero mosque wins key vote

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    Re: Ground zero mosque wins key vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Coronado View Post
    Yeah, yeah. We're all 6'1" and athletic on the internet.

    Hate to burst your bubble, but its true. Generally, I'm fiscally conservative, socially liberal and believe in an "America first" foreign policy

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    Re: Ground zero mosque wins key vote

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    Hate to burst your bubble, but its true. Generally, I'm fiscally conservative, socially liberal and believe in an "America first" foreign policy
    Socially liberal? Really? Come on, be honest here

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    Re: Ground zero mosque wins key vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    Socially liberal? Really? Come on, be honest here
    I think that people should be allowed to own and carry military firearms if they want to. I think that gays can get married and do whatever they want to as long as they don't **** with me. I don't care about abortion, because I don't think killing is wrong. I'd rather not see abortion used as birth control, but I think it's better than having stupid poor people breeding prodigiously. I believe that the federal government should concentrate on the basics, like border security and leave states rights alone. States should be able to do just about anything they want to.

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    Re: Ground zero mosque wins key vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    Socially liberal? Really? Come on, be honest here
    I think that it's supposed liberals who are defenders of this group who need to be honest, with themselves, as mainstream Islam and liberal are two mutually exclusive concepts.

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    Re: Ground zero mosque wins key vote

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
    Are you aware of your original claim?
    Yes I am, and it includes American Islam unless ofcourse American Islam does not subscribe to any of the 5 mainstream sects of Islam ofcourse.

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    Re: Ground zero mosque wins key vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Wow. I mean, do you have stats that back up anything you're saying here? Or is this just ramblings off the top of your head based on your own bias and bigotry. I've known several Muslims, none of them match your description. In fact, my Muslim roommate often volunteered in the local soup kitchen and homeless shelters in town. He liked it. How many Christians have done good? How many go out (as a percentage of the community) and actually work to improve the impoverished? I know several, but there are a lot more Christians than Muslims (in America), so relatively the number of Christians should be greater. And what does any of this have to do with the first amendment and property rights?
    There is not one branch of mainstream Islam that does not proscribe the death penalty and/or capital punishment for such heinious crimes as homosexuality, apostasy, adultery, and/or premarital sex. Those are the mainstream views in fact they are the only accepted views held in modern Islam. Do all Muslims support those views? No. Does that say ANYTHING about Islam itself? No.

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    Re: Ground zero mosque wins key vote

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
    Islam is not at war. That idea is ridiculous.

    If a lady says that Jesus told her to drown her five kids in the bathtub do you blame all of Christianity?
    Yes I most certainly due because in that case the church she was attending directly contributed to her apocalyptic delusions, she had postpartum depression and the church she was going to threw fuel on the fire.

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    Re: Ground zero mosque wins key vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    I've not seen many people, save for some of the most militant athiests, argue that Christians are as evil as muslims because of the crusades. What I've seen is people make the suggestion that Christianity can be USED for evil and can be twisted and has had its black eyes of barbarity similar to what Islam has by pointing to the Crusades, the Inquisition, the Witch Trials, and onwards. Which is an entirely legitimate argument and speaks more towards the ability for religions to be misused by culture and societies seeking to have a tool to manipulate people into evil things rather than speaking to the inate "evilness" of a religion.
    No it's not a legitimate argument I am one of those militant atheists you speak of, but the fact of the matter is that the Christian crusades were a defensive response to Islamic imperialist expansionism, and more people are killed by Islamists every year in the name of Islam than the witch trials and Spanish Inquisition killed during their entire tenure. Yes Christianity is violent, but nowhere near as violent as Islam which was born of the sword and created by a man who conducted genocide and ethnic cleansing against the Jewish Banu tribes of the Arabian Peninsula.

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    Re: Ground zero mosque wins key vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    There is not one branch of mainstream Islam that does not proscribe the death penalty and/or capital punishment for such heinious crimes as homosexuality, apostasy, adultery, and/or premarital sex. Those are the mainstream views in fact they are the only accepted views held in modern Islam. Do all Muslims support those views? No. Does that say ANYTHING about Islam itself? No.
    Well I personally have not met Muslims whom claim they want to put the gays to death or anything. I think what it really shows that in a healthy atmosphere of free religious expression that these radical ideals in some religions can be toned down. Wherein a system such as a theocracy, they would be exacerbated. And I think that's really what we see going on in today's world. The places where we see the most intolerance and violence called for by those of Muslim faith tend to be more theocratic. And while we can get those people here in America as well, Islam has been practiced here for quite some time with little to no negative effects. A place like America can really foster religions and allow them the freedom to operate without State control and because of that the religion can flourish and grow.

    Christianity had a very similar problem. A lot of the manipulation of Christianity into excuses for war happened in very theocratic States. But over time, we realized the problem with that and divorced government from religion and we've seen our religions grow and flourish into peaceful practices.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Ground zero mosque wins key vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Well I personally have not met Muslims whom claim they want to put the gays to death or anything. I think what it really shows that in a healthy atmosphere of free religious expression that these radical ideals in some religions can be toned down.
    These are not the radical views, they are the only views accepted within mainstream Islam today.

    Wherein a system such as a theocracy, they would be exacerbated.
    The guy responsible for this mosque wants a sharia compliant U.S..

    And I think that's really what we see going on in today's world. The places where we see the most intolerance and violence called for by those of Muslim faith tend to be more theocratic. And while we can get those people here in America as well, Islam has been practiced here for quite some time with little to no negative effects.
    There's simply not enough people following the ideology for it to have much of an effect. Just because American Nazi's didn't have any negative effects on America doesn't mean that their ideology was positive.

    A place like America can really foster religions and allow them the freedom to operate without State control and because of that the religion can flourish and grow.

    Christianity had a very similar problem. A lot of the manipulation of Christianity into excuses for war happened in very theocratic States. But over time, we realized the problem with that and divorced government from religion and we've seen our religions grow and flourish into peaceful practices.
    I'm not aware of any poll for America but the polls I've seen from overseas demonstrate that the majority of Muslims in the west want Sharia.

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