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Thread: Ground zero mosque wins key vote

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    Re: Ground zero mosque wins key vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    What I wanna know is this?

    If there are SOOOOO many terrorists out there, and they're all conspiring to attack us every single day of the week.

    Then where the **** are they? Surely if the situation was SOOOO Dire, and there were SOOOOO Many of them, we'd be getting attacked at least once every few months?

    I mean, they're not all coming through the airports...

    This is not a US only problem. This is a war on Western Civilization started, and perpetrated by Islam.

    From a Guardian article in 2005

    And those were just the major ones 6 years ago. Today, there are upwards of 16,000 terror incidents worldwide, and continuing to count.

    so yeah, terrorism is so yesterday......


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    Re: Ground zero mosque wins key vote

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    And ignoring the threat got us what last time around? I am sure that the families of those killed in the WTC would love hearing you dismiss their deaths so casually.

    j-mac
    Ignoring it? So you want to present this false dichotomy eh? Is that really all you have to fall back on? No one said ignore it. People are saying "don't over react to it". If you start going after our freedoms, you're over reacting. Take a step back and a deep breath. There is plenty we can do to watch and prepare and to be ready from these threats, no one says we can't do anything. But at the same accord, we need to understand that terrorists will exist so long as there are pissed off people with no power in the world. And that's most likely going to be true so long as there are advanced human cultures on this planet. So terrorists happen. We've suffered their attacks before. We will suffer their attacks again too. Given enough time, it will happen. Sorry, but it's never going to be zero. And if we strive for it to be zero, we'll be left as slaves.

    You see, freedom is inherently dangerous. When you aggregate it over a large enough population, you get abuses and crime and other undesirable effects. But this is a consequence of freedom. In a free state we will never be 100% safe, we take the risk as necessary and worth the cost of our freedom. When people start acting against that freedom, that's when we have true problems. Terrorists? No, they can't change our laws. They can't take our freedom. They have no chance in hell of ever beating us. The best they can do is ram a plane into a building. That's their ace in the hole. They did it, they got lucky and it worked beyond their wildest dream. That ace is done burnt up now though. And the most successful terrorist attack on our State soil proper didn't even kill more people than cars do in a year. And that was what, 10 years ago? Terrorists ain't got ****. If they were smart they would have synchronously blown up the TSA lines in the biggest US airports by now. But they ain't even smart enough to think that one up.

    So in the end, the true threat ain't the terrorists. Live free or die I say. Better to die on your feet than live on your knees. If they kill a small number of us, they kill a small number of us. Die free. But they ain't ever going to change us. They don't have the power. The real threat is the threat that actually works against our rights and against our liberty. The thing that has control over that, the thing that can effect that; and that's the government itself. And now we see the dangers of the Chicken Littles crying that the sky is falling. You're helping the true threat. Supporting that which can actually take our freedom, circumvent our rights, and empowering it to do so.

    Live free or die, death is not the greatest of sins.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Ground zero mosque wins key vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    It's muddying the water to attempt to represent the view that civil liberties trump individual biases and fears? Wow. How confusing this thread must be for you.
    The muddying of the waters lies in all the characterization of views that reject the Islamists while supporting their right to build as being fearful of all Muslims.
    "you're better off on Stormfront discussing how evil brown men are taking innocent white flowers." Infinite Chaos

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    Re: Ground zero mosque wins key vote

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    This is not a US only problem. This is a war on Western Civilization started, and perpetrated by Islam.

    From a Guardian article in 2005

    And those were just the major ones 6 years ago. Today, there are upwards of 16,000 terror incidents worldwide, and continuing to count.

    so yeah, terrorism is so yesterday......
    How many thousands of law enforcement folks are involved in addressing terrorism in one form or another daily?

    IF this group is linked to ANY criminal activity, whatsoever, they should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, and expelled from the U.S. when they've served their sentences.

    However, until that happens, their civil liberties should not be trampled upon by people whose sheeplike fear of the unknown causes them to want to dismantle the ****ing constitution.

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    Re: Ground zero mosque wins key vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Gardener View Post
    The muddying of the waters lies in all the characterization of views that reject the Islamists while supporting their right to build as being fearful of all Muslims.
    I am a member of group 3 myself, and have expressed my disdain for Islam several times on this thread. It's a shame you didn't really pay attention.

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    Re: Ground zero mosque wins key vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Ignoring it? So you want to present this false dichotomy eh? Is that really all you have to fall back on? No one said ignore it. People are saying "don't over react to it". If you start going after our freedoms, you're over reacting. Take a step back and a deep breath. There is plenty we can do to watch and prepare and to be ready from these threats, no one says we can't do anything. But at the same accord, we need to understand that terrorists will exist so long as there are pissed off people with no power in the world. And that's most likely going to be true so long as there are advanced human cultures on this planet. So terrorists happen. We've suffered their attacks before. We will suffer their attacks again too. Given enough time, it will happen. Sorry, but it's never going to be zero. And if we strive for it to be zero, we'll be left as slaves.

    You see, freedom is inherently dangerous. When you aggregate it over a large enough population, you get abuses and crime and other undesirable effects. But this is a consequence of freedom. In a free state we will never be 100% safe, we take the risk as necessary and worth the cost of our freedom. When people start acting against that freedom, that's when we have true problems. Terrorists? No, they can't change our laws. They can't take our freedom. They have no chance in hell of ever beating us. The best they can do is ram a plane into a building. That's their ace in the hole. They did it, they got lucky and it worked beyond their wildest dream. That ace is done burnt up now though. And the most successful terrorist attack on our State soil proper didn't even kill more people than cars do in a year. And that was what, 10 years ago? Terrorists ain't got ****. If they were smart they would have synchronously blown up the TSA lines in the biggest US airports by now. But they ain't even smart enough to think that one up.

    So in the end, the true threat ain't the terrorists. Live free or die I say. Better to die on your feet than live on your knees. If they kill a small number of us, they kill a small number of us. Die free. But they ain't ever going to change us. They don't have the power. The real threat is the threat that actually works against our rights and against our liberty. The thing that has control over that, the thing that can effect that; and that's the government itself. And now we see the dangers of the Chicken Littles crying that the sky is falling. You're helping the true threat. Supporting that which can actually take our freedom, circumvent our rights, and empowering it to do so.

    Live free or die, death is not the greatest of sins.
    America. **** yeah!

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    Re: Ground zero mosque wins key vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Ignoring it? So you want to present this false dichotomy eh?
    You advance the view that you would rather support Islamist terrorists than those who oppose them to the point they would be overly restrictive of their activities, and then claim it is somebody ELSE indulging in false dichotomies.

    Oh, my, that's rich.
    "you're better off on Stormfront discussing how evil brown men are taking innocent white flowers." Infinite Chaos

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    Re: Ground zero mosque wins key vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Gardener View Post
    Actually, I think most rational people would be quick to recognize that Ikari has not spent even a nanosecond researching Islamist politics, nor the terrorism it spawns.
    So you're Madam Cleo now?

    How about this one. I think most rational people would be quick to recognize that Gardener has not spent even a nanosecond researching history, the course of government, and the political ideologies behind the varying founders as they constructed this country and its emphasis on our rights and liberties is espouses.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Ground zero mosque wins key vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    I am a member of group 3 myself, and have expressed my disdain for Islam several times on this thread. It's a shame you didn't really pay attention.
    I also paid attention to all the times you tried to equate position 3 with position 1.
    "you're better off on Stormfront discussing how evil brown men are taking innocent white flowers." Infinite Chaos

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    Re: Ground zero mosque wins key vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Gardener View Post
    You advance the view that you would rather support Islamist terrorists than those who oppose them to the point they would be overly restrictive of their activities, and then claim it is somebody ELSE indulging in false dichotomies.

    Oh, my, that's rich.
    HAHAHAHAHAHA. No, I said I'd take terrorists over Big Brother folk any day of the week. That doesn't mean I would support the terrorists. It's just that I can fight them easier than I can the government. At some point you may have to stop misrepresenting my posts.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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