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Thread: Ground zero mosque wins key vote

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    Re: Ground zero mosque wins key vote

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    The Bill of Rights has not been interpreted by the Court to be without some reasonable restrictions. Freedom of speech stops at libel, slander, yelling fire in a crowded theater (when there is no fire), etc. A logical limitation on the 2nd Amendment would be the exclusion of criminals and the mentally insane from the right to keep and bear arms.
    Libel is speech that directly infringes upon the rights of others.

    Slander is speech that directly infringes upon the rights of others.

    Yelling fire when there is none is speech that directly infringes upon the righst of others.

    The act of writing down that someone is a pedophile is not restricted by the constitution. If you then spread that out to a multitude of people in hopes of defaming the other person, then it is.

    The act of saying a person is a pedophile is not restricted by the constitution. If you say it in a way that spreads it through multiple people in hopes of defaming the other person, it is.

    Saying "Fire" in a crowded theater when there actually is one is not restricted by the constitution. When you say it when there isn't one in order to create a riot, then it is.

    Notice, these restrictions comes into play when someones action directly has an effect damaging to someone elses rights.

    For the same reason, I think there can be a reasonable restriction on freedom of religion. If you worship Quetzelcoatl, you aren't going to be allowed to cut out someone's heart for a sacrifice. A Kali worshipper can't strangle a sacrifical victim and the druids can't burn a man in a basket at Samhain.
    The worship of Quetzelcoatl is not banned, however cutting someones hearts out for sacrifice IS banned because it directly infringes upon someone elses rights.

    The worship of Kali is not banned, the strangling of someone is because it infringes upon someone elses rights.

    The worship of Samhaim is not banned, the burning of a man is however because it infringes upon someone elses rights.

    Notice a pattern here.

    For the same reason, I think that sooner or later, we must prohibit Islam in this country.
    Notice how your suggestion BREAKS said pattern. Rather than banning the actions that infringes upon others rights you suggest the outright banning of an entire religion.

    The Koran and Hadith commands Muslims to convert the world to Islam by peaceful means if possible,
    Which is perfectly reasonable and allowable under the constitution just as it is for every other religion that preaches its message in hopes of gaining converts.

    by deception and violence if necessary.
    Which is illegal and not protected under the constitution. Deception is tricky, for Islam as it is for Christianity, as one must prove there's actual deception there. However violence is point blank and obvious, and if one commits violence in hopes of converting people then they can expect to be arrested.

    The options are to pay a dhimmi tax if you are Jewish or Christian, convert to Islam or die.
    And the forceful collection of said tax would not be protected under the constitution because it infringes upon others rights, that doesn't mean the religion should be banned.

    If their numbers were small, or they were otherwise incapable of making good on their commandment, then it wouldn't be much of an issue. But their numbers continue to grow both in this country and in others and their means of waging war now constitute a clear and present danger to the US.
    You don't get to violate the constitution simply because there are lots of them.

  2. #372
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    Re: Ground zero mosque wins key vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    Don't Christians believe that you must convert to Christianity or suffer eternally in the afterlife?
    Jesus tells Christians to "Preach the Gospel (good news) to all nations and baptize them in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit." Preach means to tell, it doesn't mean convert. In fact, there is further scripture that lays it out in no uncertain terms. You preach the Gospel, but it is the Holy Spirit that converts someone, or not, not the person doing the preaching. The Bible is very clear that believers are to preach, not convert. And, if the preaching is rejected, to move on. Men preach, God converts. Or doesn't. According to his will. But in no case are believers supposed to do anything to someone who doesn't believe

    I wonder why this is so hard for you people.
    If you read the Koran, there are constant admonitions smite unbelievers, cut off their heads, noses, etc. Lying to them is encouraged. Plunder them, make them slaves. At best, Christians and Jews are allowed to worship as they please, but they must pay a tax. At worst, they are to be killed.

  3. #373
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    Re: Ground zero mosque wins key vote

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    lol....Whether their beliefs are true and Allah is the one and only God or not is ****ing irrelevant. The issue is whether they are a threat or not.

    Do we consider them a threat? Yes! Unfortunately, you haven't researched Islam enough to make any sort of educated statement about the ultimate goals or principles of the religion

    Your bigotry is not a legal argument ric....

    It's the same arguments used during the cold war

    "communists want to subvert our way of life and turn this country into a godless utopia, blah blah ****ing blah. So anyone who wants to believe in communism must be destroyed (even though we have freedom of belief)."

    As i said before, if you wanna amend the constitution and private property laws to include an antiislam clause then you go ahead.

    But as the law stands, there is nothing wrong with this.

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    Re: Ground zero mosque wins key vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    We don't need to ban Islam. The first amendment allows for religious freedom, and also protects us from religious persecution. Muslims can practice peacefully, and if anyone goes out of line the first amendment will protect all non-muslims. It's that simple. No need to piss on the first amendment because your scared.

    1st amendment?!!! 1st amendment?!!! What in the world makes you think that radical Islam gives two wits about what our Bill of Rights says, other than to use dupes in this country to use them against us?


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    Re: Ground zero mosque wins key vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Notice how your suggestion BREAKS said pattern. Rather than banning the actions that infringes upon others rights you suggest the outright banning of an entire religion.
    That is because Islam is NOT a religion anymore than Communism is. Islam is a Political Theocracy hiding as a religion, and it is because of supposed tolerance of religion that they can get away with this ideology of hate.


    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Ground zero mosque wins key vote

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    That is because Islam is NOT a religion anymore than Communism is. Islam is a Political Theocracy hiding as a religion, and it is because of supposed tolerance of religion that they can get away with this ideology of hate.


    j-mac
    Every factor that defines a religion as a religion is present in Islam. Simply because it can be applied to governance doesn't make it not a religion. If that was the case would have to classify Christianity as one as there's historical evidence of Christianity acting as a political entity as well, and even modern example of a legitimate Christian State.

    Nice attempted end around though, you're really showing your disdain for the constitution.

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    Re: Ground zero mosque wins key vote

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    If you read the Koran, there are constant admonitions smite unbelievers, cut off their heads, noses, etc. Lying to them is encouraged. Plunder them, make them slaves. At best, Christians and Jews are allowed to worship as they please, but they must pay a tax. At worst, they are to be killed.
    If you read the Bible, there are constant admonitions about stoning people, beating your wife, beating your children, cutting off noses and heads, etc. We still allow Christians to live here, in spite of their rather horrifying views.

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    Re: Ground zero mosque wins key vote

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    That is because Islam is NOT a religion anymore than Communism is. Islam is a Political Theocracy hiding as a religion, and it is because of supposed tolerance of religion that they can get away with this ideology of hate.


    j-mac
    So, should communism be illegal, also? How about anarchism? White supremism? Racism? Homophobia?

  9. #379
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    Re: Ground zero mosque wins key vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Every factor that defines a religion as a religion is present in Islam. Simply because it can be applied to governance doesn't make it not a religion. If that was the case would have to classify Christianity as one as there's historical evidence of Christianity acting as a political entity as well, and even modern example of a legitimate Christian State.

    Nice attempted end around though, you're really showing your disdain for the constitution.

    Then Liberalism is a religion then. That would explain many actions of liberals. My disdain for the constitution? Nonsense! I am pointing out that radical Islam could care less about our piece of paper and declarations of rights when it comes to dominating the western culture and destroying it in the name of Allah. They are using our laws, and perceptions, and tolerance against us, and those within that are arguing in favor of things like this mosque are aiding them.


    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: Ground zero mosque wins key vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    If you read the Bible, there are constant admonitions about stoning people, beating your wife, beating your children, cutting off noses and heads, etc. We still allow Christians to live here, in spite of their rather horrifying views.

    You can make that claim, but you show nothing for reference, yet demand that when others make claims they back it up, how'd you put it? IN DETAIL! Why don't you have to do such?


    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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