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Thread: Ground zero mosque wins key vote

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    Re: Ground zero mosque wins key vote

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    The New Testament does not support forced conversions and fails to offer any Old Testament justification.

    This is an essential difference between Judaism and Christianity, and Islam. A Jew or a Christian can get all uppity and say he's doing it for God. But there is no scriptural basis for doing it and the argument has always failed when confronted with the source documents. Not so for Islam.
    How is the New Testament a "source" document? It wasn't compiled into what it is today until the First Council. A large portion of its work is to credited to a man who never even met Jesus. It is so far from a source document.

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    Re: Ground zero mosque wins key vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Degreez View Post
    Nice try though.
    Hmmmm.....Lets get some logic injected in this...

    America (North) was settled predominantly by Europeans, ok? and I believe, there was no other religion in Europe throughout that time. So, we have either Protestant denominations, Catholic, Jewish, or agnostic/atheist.

    Breaking it down a little further, the majority ethnic European groups were English, Scots, Irish, German, Dutch, French and Spanish. Most of the Irish and all of the Spanish were Catholic. English were mixed, but primarily Protestant. Germans were mixed, Catholic and Lutheran. Dutch were mostly Protestant. French were a small part, but it depended on whether they came down from Canada (Canada) or France-England (Huguenot). Scots were mixed and again, it depended on when they came over and where. Quite a few Catholic Scots came over after Culloden in 1743 and settled in the Carolinas. Jews were a small minority. Atheists and Agnostics were more likely to be in the "intellectual" crowd, but they were still a product of a Christian society (their mama and papa, grandmother, grandpa, etc, etc

    So, how in the world is it NOT to say that our foundations were not Judeo-Christian when that was the only culture known to most of the 13 Colonies????

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    Re: Ground zero mosque wins key vote

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    Hmmmm.....Lets get some logic injected in this...

    America (North) was settled predominantly by Europeans, ok? and I believe, there was no other religion in Europe throughout that time. So, we have either Protestant denominations, Catholic, Jewish, or agnostic/atheist.

    Breaking it down a little further, the majority ethnic European groups were English, Scots, Irish, German, Dutch, French and Spanish. Most of the Irish and all of the Spanish were Catholic. English were mixed, but primarily Protestant. Germans were mixed, Catholic and Lutheran. Dutch were mostly Protestant. French were a small part, but it depended on whether they came down from Canada (Canada) or France-England (Huguenot). Scots were mixed and again, it depended on when they came over and where. Quite a few Catholic Scots came over after Culloden in 1743 and settled in the Carolinas. Jews were a small minority. Atheists and Agnostics were more likely to be in the "intellectual" crowd, but they were still a product of a Christian society (their mama and papa, grandmother, grandpa, etc, etc

    So, how in the world is it NOT to say that our foundations were not Judeo-Christian when that was the only culture known to most of the 13 Colonies????
    Nice straw man, but that was not in anyway the mindset of our forefathers, who came to America to escape religious persecution, not to create it. Take Thomas Jefferson, for instance:

    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Jefferson
    “[T]he insertion [of the word “Jesus Christ”] was rejected by a great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and the Mahometan, the Hindoo, and the Infidel of every denomination.
    From this article, which complete debunks the straw man that you are attempting to build.

    On the other hand, fairy tales are very nice. I like the one where Chewbacca rides a squirrel into battle, and defeats the Nazis during WWII.

    The ghost of Jack Kevorkian for President's Physician: 2016

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    Re: Ground zero mosque wins key vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    If you refuse to condemn Hamas as a terrorist organization then you are not a liberal by any stretch of the imagination but rather an Islamist.

    People who defend this man which himself supports Sharia, can in no way be termed liberal, but of course ideological consistency has never been a necessity for the modern left.
    You do realize there are several schools of Sharia, some more liberal than others, that sharia has been used for feminist purposes. You do realize a grand portion of the muslim world supports sharia for its LIMITS ON GOVERNMENT POWER and other useful aspects.

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    Re: Ground zero mosque wins key vote

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    Hmmmm.....Lets get some logic injected in this...

    America (North) was settled predominantly by Europeans, ok? and I believe, there was no other religion in Europe throughout that time. So, we have either Protestant denominations, Catholic, Jewish, or agnostic/atheist.
    Except for those pagan indians that we slaughtered by the thousands. Forgot about them, didn't you?

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    Re: Ground zero mosque wins key vote

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    Regretfully though, I have to say that our founders never contemplated the problem of Islamic expansion. Immigration by Muslims to Europe was unheard of.
    I guess you missed out on the original Caliphate, right?

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    Re: Ground zero mosque wins key vote

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    The New Testament does not support forced conversions and fails to offer any Old Testament justification.

    This is an essential difference between Judaism and Christianity, and Islam. A Jew or a Christian can get all uppity and say he's doing it for God. But there is no scriptural basis for doing it and the argument has always failed when confronted with the source documents. Not so for Islam.
    Do you think the Koran might count as an Islamic source document? “There is no compulsion in religion, the path of guidance stands out clear from error” [2:256]
    Don't work out, work in.

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    Re: Ground zero mosque wins key vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Manc Skipper View Post
    Do you think the Koran might count as an Islamic source document? “There is no compulsion in religion, the path of guidance stands out clear from error” [2:256]

    Ok, This might be interesting....On killing Infidels...


    Qur'an (4:76) - "Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah…"

    Qur'an (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."
    On lying to infidels.

    "Allah will not call you to account for thoughtlessness (vain) in your oaths, but for the intention in your hearts; and He is Oft-forgiving, Most Forbearing." Surah 2:225
    On the treatment of Women...

    The Quran in Sura 4:34 says: If you fear highhandedness from your wives, remind them [of the teaching of God], then ignore them when you go to bed, then hit them. If they obey you, you have no right to act against them. God is most high and great.

    The Quran in Sura 4:24 says:

    And forbidden to you are wedded wives of other people except those who have fallen in your hands (as prisoners of war) . . .
    The Islamic punishments have encouraged a culture of violence against women, especially within the family and has spilled into violence against children. This has been commented upon by many within the country . . . The fact that men receive a lighter punishment if they commit a violence against women undoubtedly encourages such violence. We saw how women could be killed with impunity during alleged adultery. Stoning to death for adultery, although technically admissible for both sexes, has also been carried out mainly against women.

    So yeah, let's do compare religious verses....

    But better yet, let's get back on topic. The board may have well voted to authorize this direct insult by Islamic terrorists, but I can only hope that not one crew from this country agrees to build it.


    j-mac
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    Re: Ground zero mosque wins key vote

    Back on topic...the New York Times notes that opposition to the Mosque increases based upon distance from it.

    Park51, the proposed mosque near Ground Zero : The New Yorker

    Where the “Ground Zero mosque” is concerned, opposition is roughly proportional to distance, even in New York. According to a recent poll, Manhattanites are mostly for it, Staten Islanders mostly against. Community Board No. 1 endorsed it, twenty-nine to one. That’s the council that represents a corner of Manhattan that includes both Park51 and the 9/11 site—and us, too, in the not too distant future. The New Yorker is set to move from 4 Times Square to 1 World Trade Center, once it gets built. Opinion here is divided, depending on whether one’s subway ride will be longer or shorter. No one has a problem with Park51.

    ...
    That should have been the end of it, but it isn’t. The midterm elections loom. Locally, partisanship—Republican partisanship, to be specific—trumps propinquity. The two leading Republican candidates for governor of New York have made the “Ground Zero mosque” an issue, urged on by Rudy Giuliani, the ex-mayor, and by George Pataki, the ex-governor. Nationally, opposition to Park51 is rapidly becoming a matter of Republican discipline and conservative orthodoxy. By the end of last week, John McCain had joined his former running mate’s chorus. (“Obviously my opinion is that I’m opposed to it.”)

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    Re: Ground zero mosque wins key vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    Back on topic...the New York Times notes that opposition to the Mosque increases based upon distance from it.

    Park51, the proposed mosque near Ground Zero : The New Yorker

    The "New Yorker" says "most are in favor of the mosque" so it is fact? That's a good one...Is that like Obama saying that most economists are on board with his stimulus working, when we see otherwise?


    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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