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Thread: Ground zero mosque wins key vote

  1. #251
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    Re: Ground zero mosque wins key vote

    The founding fathers were men of character and much of that character was due to their foundation as believers in Christ.
    I can't speak for all the founding fathers but:

    Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.

    -Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782


    But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.

    -Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782


    Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law.

    -Thomas Jefferson, letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814



    How did the founding fathers view Muslims?
    I dunno, let's ask Mr. Jefferson?


    Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed by inserting "Jesus Christ," so that it would read "A departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;" the insertion was rejected by the great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mohammedan, the Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination.


    -Thomas Jefferson, Autobiography, in reference to the Virginia Act for Religious Freedom
    "We’re going to close the unproductive tax loopholes that allow some of the truly wealthy to avoid paying their fair share. In theory, some of those loopholes were understandable, but in practice they sometimes made it possible for millionaires to pay nothing, while a bus driver was paying ten percent of his salary, and that’s crazy." -Reagan

  2. #252
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    Re: Ground zero mosque wins key vote

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
    How did the founding fathers view Muslims?
    First of all, it is impossible to say that our foundations were not Judeo-Christian when that was the only culture known to most of the 13 Colonies.

    But let's see....All men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness and then, we have a system (Islam) where human rights are not observed. Women are treated as property plus there has never been an Islamic enlightenment where barbaric 9th century practices have been reviewed and rejected.

    Islam is a social framework fundamentally at odds with our country and is incompatible with American values and ideals

  3. #253
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    Re: Ground zero mosque wins key vote

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    First of all, it is impossible to say that our foundations were not Judeo-Christian when that was the only culture known to most of the 13 Colonies.
    Many, including Jefferson and Franklin, were Deists. Whether or not this country was founded on these values is a moot point as preferential treatment toward one religion over the other is banned.

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    But let's see....All men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness and then, we have a system (Islam) where human rights are not observed. Women are treated as property plus there has never been an Islamic enlightenment where barbaric 9th century practices have been reviewed and rejected.

    Islam is a social framework fundamentally at odds with our country and is incompatible with American values and ideals
    Some Muslims see it that way, others don't. Trying to put 1.1 billion people onto a single group like that is bound to fail. You can pull up some out of context quote from the Koran telling you to kill infidels, and 95% of Muslims will tell you they have a different interpretation of it.
    "Doubleplusungood"

    George Orwell

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    Re: Ground zero mosque wins key vote

    I think you are too close to the forest to see the trees. First off, the Bible is history, prophecy, poetry, the law, etc. Taken all together, it imparts moral principles and guidance. With that in mind, take a look at the writings of the founding fathers, including the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution and see if it conflicts with the Biblical values or does it incorporate them?
    The bible is not history, prophecy or the law. To believe any of that you would have to be delusional. Literally delusional.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

  5. #255
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    Re: Ground zero mosque wins key vote

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    First of all, it is impossible to say that our foundations were not Judeo-Christian when that was the only culture known to most of the 13 Colonies.

    But let's see....All men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness and then, we have a system (Islam) where human rights are not observed. Women are treated as property plus there has never been an Islamic enlightenment where barbaric 9th century practices have been reviewed and rejected.

    Islam is a social framework fundamentally at odds with our country and is incompatible with American values and ideals
    You want me to find some quotes from Franklin, Adams and Washington to show how uneducated you are on the facts of our nation's inventors? While they might have been raised to believe such initially, Franking specifically despised religion and what it's purpose was, specifically by the perscuting England at the time.

    In fact, one of the foundations of our nation is to escape religious perscution from the likes of England's monarchy.

    I myself have my quarrels with fundamental and strict muslims (although such a thing does not exist in United States) and am Baptist, but I also believe in our great country and what our founding fathers truly believed in.

    The bible is not history, prophecy or the law. To believe any of that you would have to be delusional. Literally delusional.
    Nor do I believe this. There are historic events from other texts throughout history and scientific evidence (for example the great flood) that correlate with events in the Bible. There is also plenty prophecy in the Bible, the issue here though is that we do not need to allow our own personal believes pervert what our nation stands for.
    Last edited by JohnWOlin; 08-06-10 at 04:03 AM.
    "We’re going to close the unproductive tax loopholes that allow some of the truly wealthy to avoid paying their fair share. In theory, some of those loopholes were understandable, but in practice they sometimes made it possible for millionaires to pay nothing, while a bus driver was paying ten percent of his salary, and that’s crazy." -Reagan

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    Re: Ground zero mosque wins key vote

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    I was responding to your comment implying that Churches get "preferential treatment" as some sort of Federally mandated affair. I was scoffing at you dear. SCOFFING.
    I don't believe churches DO get preferential treatment. However, I think that people like Ric think they SHOULD, that in essence we should legally favor Christianity over Islam or any other system of belief. That is clearly a departure from the thinking of the founding fathers.

    I scoff at him. SCOFF.

    We could scoff together, if you'd like.
    Last edited by Catz Part Deux; 08-06-10 at 09:42 AM.

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    Re: Ground zero mosque wins key vote

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    But let's see....All men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness
    This is not a biblical thought. It's an enlightenment thought. If you do believe it is a Christian thought, please feel free to provide the relevant scriptural reference.

  8. #258
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    Re: Ground zero mosque wins key vote

    Nor do I believe this. There are historic events from other texts throughout history and scientific evidence (for example the great flood) that correlate with events in the Bible.
    Just because the authors of the bible wrote in a historical context does not mean that the bible is history. There is so much in the bible's "history" that has contradicted actual scientific findings that to say so you would literally have to be delusional. As a work of fiction and literature it was set in a historical setting and perhaps addressed historical events to some extent, but it is not a historical work, it is a literary work.

    There is also plenty prophecy in the Bible
    No there isn't. Again, to believe in prophecies you would have to be literally delusional.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

  9. #259
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    Re: Ground zero mosque wins key vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    I don't believe churches DO get preferential treatment. However, I think that people like Ric think they SHOULD, that in essence we should legally favor Christianity over Islam or any other system of belief. That is clearly a departure from the thinking of the founding fathers.

    I scoff at him. SCOFF.

    We could scoff together, if you'd like.
    Well, Churches having political power, I agree with you and the Founders would as well.

    Churches being important to the National Fabric? Something to be, cherished, the Bible looked to for moral guidance... the Founders would have emphatically said YES too.

    They feared, and rightly so, State Gov't, what they failed to foresee, was Gov't as religion.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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    Re: Ground zero mosque wins key vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    Just because the authors of the bible wrote in a historical context does not mean that the bible is history. There is so much in the bible's "history" that has contradicted actual scientific findings that to say so you would literally have to be delusional. As a work of fiction and literature it was set in a historical setting and perhaps addressed historical events to some extent, but it is not a historical work, it is a literary work.



    No there isn't. Again, to believe in prophecies you would have to be literally delusional.
    We get it, you don't like the Bible and you think anyone that believes in it is a ****ing idiot.

    Yay you.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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