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Thread: Ground zero mosque wins key vote

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    Re: Ground zero mosque wins key vote

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    I don't see what the big deal is about it. Just another ****ing church. Big whoop.

    I'm betting people didn't protest any churches being built near the OK city bombing area even though McVeigh was christian
    McVeigh was agnostic. These people have the right to have their shrine to oppression being placed where followers of their oppressive ideology killed three thousand of my kith in the name of that oppressive ideology, but that doesn't mean that I have to like it or that I shouldn't protest against it.

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    Re: Ground zero mosque wins key vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    I suppose I should be used to it, but the level of racism on display by opponents of the mosque continues to astound me. Are people really advocating that peaceful and law abiding Muslims (read: the vast majority of all Muslims, all people for that matter, are peaceful and law abiding) should just give up their legal rights because it may offend some people? Since when is offending ignorant bigots even worth consideration? As I recall, there were a lot of people who were "offended" when they desegregated public schools, and that is precisely the side of the argument that the people who oppose this mosque are falling on right now. I mean, this is just naked racism we're talking about! What on earth is wrong with you people?!
    I understand is that Islam is a grave threat to world peace. Islam is not compatible with our own Constitution. Islam is the antithesis of Christianity and Judaism and Islam is the evil of the wolf dressed in the clothing of a sheep.

    No one will move out of my position. I simply DO NOT want to build a bridge to enable honor killings, wife beheadings and the elimination of liberty on our shores.

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    Re: Ground zero mosque wins key vote

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    I understand is that Islam is a grave threat to world peace. Islam is not compatible with our own Constitution. Islam is the antithesis of Christianity and Judaism and Islam is the evil of the wolf dressed in the clothing of a sheep.

    No one will move out of my position. I simply DO NOT want to build a bridge to enable honor killings, wife beheadings and the elimination of liberty on our shores.
    Thank you for epitomizing exactly what I was referring to. It's remarkable how little people who claim to "know" so much about Islam actually understand about Islam. To say that "Islam is not compatible with our own Constitution" evinces such a deep misunderstanding of both Islam and the Constitution that I don't even know where to begin.

    I'll start with Islam. Those things you mention, honor killings and the like, are not Islam. Not anymore than lynching and cross burning is Christianity. All cultures, all people, have despicable aspects, be they honor killings, apartheid, what have you. But you can't conflate a culture's shortcomings with the religion practiced by that culture.

    As for the Constitution, you just have to read the first amendment to see how Islam is compatible with it.
    Last edited by Guy Incognito; 08-04-10 at 10:59 PM.

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    Re: Ground zero mosque wins key vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    Thank you for epitomizing exactly what I was referring to. It's remarkable how little people who claim to "know" so much about Islam actually understand about Islam. To say that "Islam is not compatible with our own Constitution" evinces such a deep misunderstanding of both Islam and the Constitution that I don't even know where to begin.

    I'll start with Islam. Those things you mention, honor killings and the like, are not Islam. Not anymore than lynching and cross burning is Christianity. All cultures, all people, have despicable aspects, be they honor killings, apartheid, what have you. But you can't conflate a culture's shortcomings with the religion practiced by that culture.

    As for the Constitution, you just have to read the first amendment to see how Islam is compatible with it.
    Yes, Sharia Law and The Bill of Rights go hand in hand.

    I also note you have failed to show one incident of "racism" in this thread.
    Last edited by Renae; 08-04-10 at 11:17 PM.
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    Re: Ground zero mosque wins key vote

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    I also note you have failed to show one incident of "racism" in this thread.
    Well, considering that race is a myth with absolutely no scientific foundation, it might be fair to say that we're not really talking about a "racial" group here. And even if we are to subscribe to such an outmoded theory as race, it is certainly true that Islam is comprised of many "races" so to be anti-Islamic does not necessarily make one "racist."

    But on the other hand, it is all basically the same thing and it is disingenuous to deny that fact. Bigotry is bigotry whether it is a "racist" or "Anti-Islamic" or "the Tea Party" or whatever you feel like calling it that day. It's all evil and abhorrent and the worst parts of human nature. It's fear of the other, plain and simple.

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    Re: Ground zero mosque wins key vote

    Race is a myth what?

    Anyways I feel indifferent on the whole thing but just goes to show how much better United States is than say, Iran or Saudi Arabia. This kind of stuff would not fly in either one of those countries.
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    Re: Ground zero mosque wins key vote

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    Yes, Sharia Law and The Bill of Rights go hand in hand.

    I also note you have failed to show one incident of "racism" in this thread.
    The problem, Vic, is that there are a ton of Christians in the U.S. who would like to mandate old testament law as the law of the land, too. They would like their religious beliefs to supercede everything else. That's not so different from wanting Sharia Law, when you think abou tit.

    And both are equally incompatible with our constitution and bill of rights. The solution isn't to villify all Christians, but to keep on demonstrating the benefits of the rule of law. We don't do that by trampling on people's religious rights.

    The proper, historic American response to this was summed up best by Thomas Jefferson:

    "I never will, by any word or act, bow to the shrine of intolerance or admit a right of inquiry into the religious opinions of others."
    --Thomas Jefferson

    And, here is another relevant thought:

    "Once you attempt legislation upon religious grounds, you open the way for every kind of intolerance and religious persecution."
    --William Butler Yeats

    I defend the rights of these people to worship according to the dictates of their conscience because, by doing so, I defend my own. And for that matter, yours.

    I may thing that religion is wholy stupid (I do), but I would defend the rights of any man to worship as he sees fit.

    That's WHY I will defend these people.

    And, by doing so, I am defending exactly what it means to be American.

    See, I have faith, but not in religions. I have faith in our founding documents and the core principles of this country that have made us the the place on this earth where men are most free. My faith in who and what we are is so strong that whether these people mean us well or ill, I believe that America itself will eventually supercede it and turn it to good. By being true to ourselves, by being true to our founding documents, and not allowing our every decision to be tainted by fear, we show what America really is.

    I would encourage you to have faith, as well, in America...in what it means to be American.
    Last edited by Catz Part Deux; 08-05-10 at 08:43 AM.

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    Re: Ground zero mosque wins key vote

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    I don't see what the big deal is about it. Just another ****ing church. Big whoop.

    I'm betting people didn't protest any churches being built near the OK city bombing area even though McVeigh was christian
    God damnit I hate ignorant **** like this and you're better than this Riv.

    There is no legitimate, reasonable way in which to compare the OKC bomber to those of 9/11 in regards to religion. The central point of McVeigh's anger that led to his bombing of the OKC building was his hatred for the government and their infringement on liberteries. He cited his opposition to the brady bill, increased taxes, the demonization of militias, and the raids on Ruby Ridge and Waco primarily due to their basis founded in position of large amounts of firearms. McVeigh professed that while he believed in "a god", that he had "lost touch with" his religion and never really picked it back up. He had made claims of being agnostic, not believing in hell, and that "science is my religion". There is nothing within McVeigh's history close around the bombing to suggest that Christianity had a significant impact in his decision.

    The continual and repeated attempt to use revisionist history to make Timothy Mcveigh to appear an extremist christian whose terrorist attack was motivated based on his christian beliefs, principles, and views is a tired and fraudulent one that is annoying to watch how often its thrown out. Even more than that, when comparing it to 9/11 which was unquestionably at the very least tied towards religious motivations if not fueled primarily and throughout by religious motivations it is disgusting to even see it. While some may claim that there are political reasons why 9/11 happened as well, those political reasons are motivated due to the religious beliefs of the people. There is no evidence that McVeigh's political issues were motivated by a deep seeded religious belief. The two are not analogous in any way.
    Quote Originally Posted by MrWonka View Post
    In fact, I would wager to you that within 10 years of today's date that stupid MAGA hat will be registered as a symbol of hate on par with a Swastika.
    "One of the greatest human failings is to prefer to be right than to be effective" - Stephen Fry

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    Re: Ground zero mosque wins key vote

    The people building this mosque are either gigantic douches, completely ****ing morons, or dishonest lying assholes.

    That said, nothing is illegal about being any of those things and buying land or making a building.

    So the gigantic douches/****ing morons/dishonest lying assholes should be free to build this without the government attempting to retroactively make laws that deny them the ability to do so.
    Quote Originally Posted by MrWonka View Post
    In fact, I would wager to you that within 10 years of today's date that stupid MAGA hat will be registered as a symbol of hate on par with a Swastika.
    "One of the greatest human failings is to prefer to be right than to be effective" - Stephen Fry

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    Re: Ground zero mosque wins key vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    So the gigantic douches/****ing morons/dishonest lying assholes should be free to build this without the government attempting to retroactively make laws that deny them the ability to do so.
    Correction: The people who are building this mosque are courageous people of faith, bravely putting up with small mindedness and bigotry. But how nice of you to condescend to admit that they are within their inalienable rights.

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