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Thread: US combat mission in Iraq to end on schedule Aug 31: Obama

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    Re: US combat mission in Iraq to end on schedule Aug 31: Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Why? So we declare defeat and shame our veterans for the rest of their lives for being losers, like we did after Vietnam?

    Also, we send the message to the bad guys that they do not need to defeat our soldiers on the battlefield, all they need to do is defeat our gutless politicians in Washington and the anti-war crowd who voted for those politicians.

    I', having trouble seeing an upside, here.
    How are our troops shamed by the fact that their CIC didn't have a clear objective, mission, or exit strategy? That's a failure in command staff, not boots on the ground. Further, our officers and enlisted personnel have performed admirably, at great personal cost, in persevering in an unwinnable situation. Conceding that we should never have entered another land war in Asia is only common sense.

    The mistake was in becoming an occupying force.

    No offense, but speaking for one of the guys in uniform, he'd prefer not to go back to the cluster****. Very little has been accomplished by their bravery, and that's a shame. But the shame belongs to those who put them there, not the guys and gals themselves. I'm pretty sure that 99.9% of all Americans understand this. It's not rocket science.


    I'm appalled that you would even try to lay shame at the feet of our military personnel. Seriously. What are you thinking? It's not their fault that they were sent in without a plan as to how this nation building would occur.
    Last edited by Catz Part Deux; 08-03-10 at 02:08 PM.

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    Re: US combat mission in Iraq to end on schedule Aug 31: Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    None of our police actions around the world since WWII have been effective. Part of our problem in WW2 was that we had insufficient forces to get involved in what was happening in Europe.
    Has there been any kind of full scale invasion of the United States, or our neighbors? Did the Soviets get a foothold in the western hemishpere? Have there been anymore world wars? Have we deployed millions of American troops to a foreign country, where over a million of them never returned? I would say that our police actions since WW2 have been fairly effective.




    History suggests that our involvement in police actions and nation building have failed every single time since WW2.
    Revisionist history tells that tale. The real history tells something totally different.

    I support having a large standing volunteer army, but using them far less frequently.
    An army that doesn't fight, doesn't know how to fight.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: US combat mission in Iraq to end on schedule Aug 31: Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    How are our troops shamed by the fact that their CIC didn't have a clear objective, mission, or exit strategy? That's a failure in command staff, not boots on the ground. Further, our officers and enlisted personnel have performed admirably, at great personal cost, in persevering in an unwinnable situation. Conceding that we should never have entered another land war in Asia is only common sense.

    The mistake was in becoming an occupying force.

    No offense, but speaking for one of the guys in uniform, he'd prefer not to go back to the cluster****. Very little has been accomplished by their bravery, and that's a shame. But the shame belongs to those who put them there, not the guys and gals themselves. I'm pretty sure that 99.9% of all Americans understand this. It's not rocket science.


    I'm appalled that you would even try to lay shame at the feet of our military personnel. Seriously. What are you thinking? It's not their fault that they were sent in without a plan as to how this nation building would occur.
    Refer back to one of your historical sources and see how Viet Vets were treated after Vietnam. They were treated like losers, the same way Iraq Vets will be treated, if this is declared a defeat.

    I'm appalled that you would even try to lay shame at the feet of our military personnel. Seriously. What are you thinking? It's not their fault that they were sent in without a plan as to how this nation building would occur.
    I nevr said that. Any suggestion that I did is an outright lie.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: US combat mission in Iraq to end on schedule Aug 31: Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Why? So we declare defeat and shame our veterans for the rest of their lives for being losers, like we did after Vietnam?

    Also, we send the message to the bad guys that they do not need to defeat our soldiers on the battlefield, all they need to do is defeat our gutless politicians in Washington and the anti-war crowd who voted for those politicians.

    I', having trouble seeing an upside, here.
    What is the upside of being there? Pride? Sorry, but that does not cut it for me, especially every time I see on the news someone coming home in a casket. Bring our guys home, where they are supposed to be.

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    Re: US combat mission in Iraq to end on schedule Aug 31: Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Has there been any kind of full scale invasion of the United States, or our neighbors? Did the Soviets get a foothold in the western hemishpere? Have there been anymore world wars? Have we deployed millions of American troops to a foreign country, where over a million of them never returned? I would say that our police actions since WW2 have been fairly effective.
    There is an assumption on your part that our police actions prevented these things. I don't think you can prove this. Thus, your point is moot.

    Revisionist history tells that tale. The real history tells something totally different.
    Real history suggests that Vietnam worked?

    An army that doesn't fight, doesn't know how to fight.
    Welcome to training exercises, 101. Our guys hadn't fought since vietnam when we went into Kuwait in 1991, and they managed.

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    Re: US combat mission in Iraq to end on schedule Aug 31: Obama

    When will we learn War is never the answer?
    I use a lot of satire and sarcasm so keep that in mind when reading my posts.

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    Re: US combat mission in Iraq to end on schedule Aug 31: Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    That wasn't going to happen. Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, Saudia Arabia... none of these states have a "Come on in Americans and hunt down terrorists!" policy.
    Doesn't mean they have to know about it. Send special forces in, kick ass, get out, undetected.
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    Re: US combat mission in Iraq to end on schedule Aug 31: Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Refer back to one of your historical sources and see how Viet Vets were treated after Vietnam. They were treated like losers, the same way Iraq Vets will be treated, if this is declared a defeat.
    No one is discussing calling it a defeat. You're interjecting a new terminology into the discussion. I'd call it "ending hostilities and withdrawing forces," myself. Do you consider it a defeat for which you plan to hold our troops responsible? If so, that sounds like a personal problem.

    I nevr said that. Any suggestion that I did is an outright lie.
    This is your reasoning, which you interjected into the discussion. No one else labeled this a defeat. Hence, it's a rational question.
    Last edited by Catz Part Deux; 08-03-10 at 02:16 PM.

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    Re: US combat mission in Iraq to end on schedule Aug 31: Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    So, your contention is that we are being opposed militarily in Iraq? Doesn't that fly in the face of your belief that these are enemy combatants who can be tortured, then? Which is it?
    Just because a fighting force doesn't rate protections under the Geneva Convention, doesn't make them any less of a military force. Anytime a force uses interlocking fields of fire, explosives, anti-armor ambushes, etc. to fight, then they are using military tactics and that makes them a military force.

    The tactics of street gangs largely depend on the gang, but in Los Angeles and Chicago, they are fairly organized in criminal activity and control of specific neighborhoods through terror and intimidation.
    But, which tactical doctrine do they employ? Hart? Clausewitz? Rommel? Patton? Lee?

    Selling drugs and doing late night drivebys don't qualifiy as, "combat tactics".
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: US combat mission in Iraq to end on schedule Aug 31: Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    Doesn't mean they have to know about it. Send special forces in, kick ass, get out, undetected.
    Or, rehash Kuwait, circa 1991...bomb the fuck out of them. Worked better than invasion.

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