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Thread: US combat mission in Iraq to end on schedule Aug 31: Obama

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    Re: US combat mission in Iraq to end on schedule Aug 31: Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    I'm not sure, I would like to know the general's opinion. 50,000 troops mean nothing if they aren't allowed to preform combat missions and be on the offensive against terrorists. This isn't about military strategy or what's best in the war, it's purely political. Obama is a horrible military leader and will probably take credit for the "success" of the Iraq war, when the true credit goes to those who supported the surge and the troops themselves.
    No offense, Digs, but the surge is based upon police tactics that over the last 50 years have been proven abysmally ineffective, as well, at controlling crime. It's called a "saturation patrol"...you deluge a neighborhood with a ton of officers and drive the crime underground. Do the criminals go away? nope. They lay low. Does this tactic work over time? Nope. If not reinforced with other measures, crime rates go right back up. Same tactics used in Iraq, with the same results.

    We simply cannot afford, as a nation, to put enough troops in Iraq to control what is basically a criminal problem in Iraq, unless the locals themselves are willing to step up and address it. I've watched any number of Police Departments around the U.S. use that strategy--with the same results--over the last 20 years.

    I knew it was doomed to longterm failure. The root problems of violence in Iraq weren't addressed, only the symptoms were.

    It's like dosing a guy who has liver cancer with tylenol.

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    Re: US combat mission in Iraq to end on schedule Aug 31: Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    They could sell the oil to buy a nuke....whoopeee.
    Are you kidding? They aren't even organized enough at this point to sell their oil.

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    Re: US combat mission in Iraq to end on schedule Aug 31: Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Who are they going to sell oil to? Where are they gonna get a nuke from? There's a lot we can do through sanctions if need be. I mean, I don't know if we really want to break out the "Iraq has WMD" so soon again.
    You know who does have nuclear weapons? Pakistan. And here we are, worried that Iraq might get them.

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    Re: US combat mission in Iraq to end on schedule Aug 31: Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    Are you kidding? They aren't even organized enough at this point to sell their oil.
    Hey! I think you're missing the point. Iraq can get WMDs, so we have to make sure they don't. And also bring them democracy and World of Warcraft! And maybe Halo...but only if they're really good.
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    Re: US combat mission in Iraq to end on schedule Aug 31: Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Can't have a war on an ideology as well, but its pretty accurate to suggest the Cold War as a War on Communism.

    I think people get too hyped up on the "War on Terror" monikor, and it always bugs me when people make THAT the issue when people dare to simply call it what its technical term is.

    Was it a stupid term to use? Sure. But it was also the most simplified way to say it...

    In more specific, its a war on state sponsored terrorists whose goal is (arguably) the subjigation or destruction of westernized society, typically by militant radical islamists.

    The issue here is, unlike a traditional war, there is no specific STATE to quote. Even beyond that, there is no specific group as terrorist organizations are legion and interconnect in odd ways while maintaining autonomy. The "War on Terror" notion is a sound bite, but only truly inaccurate if one is attempting to view it completely literally without allowing any context or reason to play into it. When one realizes and accepts, even if they disagree, that this is a "war" against state sponsored terrorists organizations that threaten the United States and its Allies then the "War on Terror" label makes far more sense, as "terror" is a reference to the classification of the group rather than a specific group name.
    Okay this makes alot more sense, when explained like that it seems like something with a goal, instead of just empty rhetoric. Though I still think we went about it the wrong way. Invading, occupying,and nation building isn't the best way to stop terrorists. If we hunted down, and just destroyed the terrorist cells individually it would of been a much more effective, and cost efficient(in both money, and lives) way to accomplish the same goal. Also I really doubt recruitment for such cells would be anywhere near as high as it is now.
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    Re: US combat mission in Iraq to end on schedule Aug 31: Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnWOlin View Post
    Bases like Ramstein aren't in Germany because we need to "babysit" the German people. It is in use for it's stragetic purposes, not to mention bases such as Ramstein are a massive boost to Deutchland's economy. Not only that it is used by many of our allies including CA, SK, UK, JP, and AU specifically. There is no tactical purpose to set up a massive installation inside Iraqi especially when we also have major installations within Kuwait.

    Anyways, glad to see that this is finally happening.
    In part, that's exactly why American troops are in Germany. Immediately after VE day, that's exactly why The United States maintained a troop presence there. Since VE, there have been communist and facist influences that could have sent Germany right back into the position she was in in the 30's. US forces, in country, helped to prevent that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: US combat mission in Iraq to end on schedule Aug 31: Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    it would be our mistake to extend that mandate. we need to get the hell out of dodge and let the iraqis rule the iraqis, however flawed they might be.
    I completely agree.

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    Re: US combat mission in Iraq to end on schedule Aug 31: Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    If we hunted down, and just destroyed the terrorist cells individually it would of been a much more effective, and cost efficient(in both money, and lives) way to accomplish the same goal. Also I really doubt recruitment for such cells would be anywhere near as high as it is now.
    That wasn't going to happen. Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, Saudia Arabia... none of these states have a "Come on in Americans and hunt down terrorists!" policy.

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    Re: US combat mission in Iraq to end on schedule Aug 31: Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Hey! I think you're missing the point. Iraq can get WMDs, so we have to make sure they don't. And also bring them democracy and World of Warcraft! And maybe Halo...but only if they're really good.
    What Iraq really needs is a solid dose of McDonald's and Walmart. And our forces should be there, on the ground, to make that happen.

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    Re: US combat mission in Iraq to end on schedule Aug 31: Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    No offense, Digs, but the surge is based upon police tactics that over the last 50 years have been proven abysmally ineffective, as well, at controlling crime. It's called a "saturation patrol"...you deluge a neighborhood with a ton of officers and drive the crime underground. Do the criminals go away? nope. They lay low. Does this tactic work over time? Nope. If not reinforced with other measures, crime rates go right back up. Same tactics used in Iraq, with the same results.

    We simply cannot afford, as a nation, to put enough troops in Iraq to control what is basically a criminal problem in Iraq, unless the locals themselves are willing to step up and address it. I've watched any number of Police Departments around the U.S. use that strategy--with the same results--over the last 20 years.

    I knew it was doomed to longterm failure. The root problems of violence in Iraq weren't addressed, only the symptoms were.

    It's like dosing a guy who has liver cancer with tylenol.
    Even if the terrorist activities in Iraq could be defined as a criminal problem, the fact still remains that they are using military tactics to carry out their operations. The only way to combat a military force, is with a military force.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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