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Thread: US combat mission in Iraq to end on schedule Aug 31: Obama

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    Re: US combat mission in Iraq to end on schedule Aug 31: Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Most of the folks that support us retreating from Iraq don't fully understand what, "ending the combat mission", really means
    It means we are taking a much less active roll. For some one who does not understand simple words like "retreating", I would be careful if I was you complaining about what others don't understand.
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    Re: US combat mission in Iraq to end on schedule Aug 31: Obama

    I disagree that this is "Retreating", the success in Iraq however is due to Bush's surge, and Obama "staying the course" on this surge. These Iraqis need to stand on thier own.


    I do think his timeline achievement rhetoric is quite misleading though as I posted.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: US combat mission in Iraq to end on schedule Aug 31: Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by Mustachio View Post
    Most of the folks that support us retreating from Iraq aren't naive enough to believe there's anything that can be won by staying there.
    Not losing another 3,400 KIA's, when we have to go back and put things back togther would be a win. Not having a repeat of Vietnam in 1975 would be a win. The only people who will win by retrating will be the politicians who thump their chests at campaign speeches about how they ended the war in Iraq.
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    Re: US combat mission in Iraq to end on schedule Aug 31: Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    It means we are taking a much less active roll. For some one who does not understand simple words like "retreating", I would be careful if I was you complaining about what others don't understand.
    Do you understand a simple word like, "sarcasm"? Perhaps the caution should be your's, madam.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: US combat mission in Iraq to end on schedule Aug 31: Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by youknowwho View Post
    ok, this actually scares me. it's like US is closing a front, just to open another one up. and guess what, all the world is talking about Iran.
    Only because Obama power politics keeps the pressure on, and our media leads the propaganda blitz.

    How soon we forget that Iran bought rods from Russia a couple of moths back, and rods are only good for atomic power plants, not weapons grade, and Iran is constructing two. We also forget that Russia designed Iran's centrifuge array...

    ricksfolly

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    Re: US combat mission in Iraq to end on schedule Aug 31: Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by Mustachio View Post
    Here's the story from 2009 where Obama announced the timetable that he set. If you want to debate, you have to debate the facts and not a set of circumstances that you've invented.
    Sorry, I didn't invent anything.

    Barack Obama is directly in line with the Bush Plan that was already in place before he left office. The Bush plan was for all troops to be pulled out of Iraq no later than December 2011. Here's a LINK to an article showing Bush's plan was set to have everyone out by late 2011. Here's even another link to the notoriously and openly biased Media Matters stating that "Iraq and U.S. agree that all U.S. forces will withdraw 'no later than December 31, 2011.'"

    Or, if you wish, you could just go to the very Security Agreement that was signed by Bush and the Iraqi's that set the original time table, found HERE. You'll also notice a June 2009 pull out date from major Iraqi cities, as well as a comment of the parties agreeing "to establish mechanisms and arrangements to reduce the number of
    the United States Forces during the periods of time that have been determined". You know, the very thing Obama is doing to follow this agreement. The notion of leaving around 50,000 troops was even in place during the Bush Administration.

    Your own link shows my assertion to be true without "inventing" any circumstances. Note the bar graph on the side showing Obama's plan mirrors the Bush timeline that BUSH signed into agreement of having the number reach 0 by 2011. Note the drawing down of troops between the time of its signing, the 2009 withdrawl from cities, and the actual time of leaving; this is action mandated by the agreement BUSH helped create and signed. Note your source pointing out while its an end of the direct combat mission, that doesn't change the fact that 1/3rd of the troops will still be reamining in Iraq and in roles NOT simply regulated to non-combat related issues (note it speaking about continuing the counterterrorism fight).

    Sorry, but the only one "inventing" anything here is you. Inventing the fact that somehow this is Obama's baby when the framework was signed and created by the Bush Administration and Obama is simply following along with the deadlines and edicts it set forth. Indeed, your own link even shows that Obama is NOT meeting his deadline...not the one he initial gave at least....that ALL combat troops would be home 16 months after his inauguration, having had one brigade come home each month from the time of his inaugation.

    And what makes me think McCain would do things differently? He said publicly that his plan would honor the agreement that was in place during Bush's last year in office -- which would take troops out by 2012. There's also that famous "hundred years" quote but he wasn't referring to combat troops so I'll give him a pass on that one.
    Yes, he did say that he'd honor the Bush agreement...which, by the way, you're mistaken, not by 2012, by the end of 2011. Guess what? That's exactly what Obama is doing. Combat troops are still going to be in Iraq until the end of 2011, however between now and then mechanisms and arrangements to reduce the number of the United States Forces in Iraq are occuring. Hey...that sounds strangely familiar. Oh, that's right, that's what the Bush agreement mandated.

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    Re: US combat mission in Iraq to end on schedule Aug 31: Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Yes, he did say that he'd honor the Bush agreement...which, by the way, you're mistaken, not by 2012, by the end of 2011. Guess what? That's exactly what Obama is doing. Combat troops are still going to be in Iraq until the end of 2011, however between now and then mechanisms and arrangements to reduce the number of the United States Forces in Iraq are occuring. Hey...that sounds strangely familiar. Oh, that's right, that's what the Bush agreement mandated.
    When I said "by 2012," I was referring to that date of December 31st, 2011, which is one day before 2012. I thought that would be clear to everybody. Listen, here's from the article you linked to:

    And US officials say that the timeframe is a target, not a hard-and-fast deadline like those Bush had rejected, and will require sustained progress on the political, economic and security fronts.

    Ok, there was no deadline for Bush, there were targets. Obama set actual deadlines and is pledging to stick to them. I apologize if I was harsh and split hairs over a small difference, you're wayyy too defensive though.

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    Re: US combat mission in Iraq to end on schedule Aug 31: Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by Mustachio View Post
    When I said "by 2012," I was referring to that date of December 31st, 2011, which is one day before 2012. I thought that would be clear to everybody.
    However, simply saying "2012" is a rather ambiguous number, as a year later than December 31st, 2011 is still 2012.

    Listen, here's from the article you linked to:

    And US officials say that the timeframe is a target, not a hard-and-fast deadline like those Bush had rejected, and will require sustained progress on the political, economic and security fronts.

    Ok, there was no deadline for Bush, there were targets. Obama set actual deadlines and is pledging to stick to them. I apologize if I was harsh and split hairs over a small difference, you're wayyy too defensive though.
    There was a deadline for Bush, December 31st 2011. There was no hard and fast DATE for withdrawal, as was evident in the agreement that was signed that said "no later than December 31, 2011." What the story may quote some random official from saying doesn't counter the direct text of the actual document that mandates this:

    1. All the United States Forces shall withdraw from all Iraqi territory no later than December 31, 2011.
    Obama did set up deadlines. He set up a deadline for ALL combat troops to be gone by August 10th, this did not happen. What is happening however is that he's specified what his "mechanics and arrangements to reduce the number of United State Forces" in Iraq are, something mandated by the agreement Bush signed, and his long term deadline for ZERO troops in Iraq remains the same as it was under the current agreement that Bush helped create and sign, December 2011.

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    Re: US combat mission in Iraq to end on schedule Aug 31: Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    These Iraqis need to stand on thier own.
    Hell yeah they do. We can't hold their hand the entire time. They're going to have to take the responsibility of their government and their land and their rights and understand the work necessary to keep it.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    Re: US combat mission in Iraq to end on schedule Aug 31: Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    You can't win a war from the air. At some point, you have to put grunts on the ground to engage the enemy.



    The same thing that defines winning in any other war for the past several thousand years of recorded history: the enemy suffer's such a defeat that he ceases all combat action. War aren't necessarily won, because two opposing sides sit down and sign a piece of paper.
    First of all you have to find men that look and dress like the other Afghanistan
    men and have no base of operations, only hundreds of scattered caves and other concealed places all over the country. They hit and run and disappear into the night.

    ricksfolly

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