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Thread: Israeli airstrike kills senior Hamas rocket maker

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    Re: Israeli airstrike kills senior Hamas rocket maker

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    I'm not surprised that no specific general order was available. The "account" is wholly a matter of incorrect speculation without foundation in fact. Not one of General Washington's orders calls for what today would be characterized as war crimes. In numerous orders, he called for restraint and also punishment for those who committed improper acts that would amount to abuses or war crimes. All of his general orders, among his papers, are online via the Library of Congress.
    i see it differently
    his reversing general putnam's order, directing the soldiers to end their riding the loyalists thru the streets on a rail, indicates Washington believed it acceptable to mistreat the civilians who were disloyal to the patriots' cause, in NYC in 1776
    sorry to disappoint you, but many of the founding fathers actually had clay feet
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Re: Israeli airstrike kills senior Hamas rocket maker

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    please explain why you find this to be the case as i fail to see any logic in your assertion
    Because most Germans saw the Nazis as, "freedom fighters", to stop Jewish oppression, right the wrongs of the Treaty of Versailles and exact revenge upon the French and English, for creating the terms of the Treaty.

    Do you think it was an accident that the French Army in 1940 surrendered to the Germans in the exact same rail car that the Germans surrendered in, during WW1?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  3. #53
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    Re: Israeli airstrike kills senior Hamas rocket maker

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    I'm not surprised that no specific general order was available. The "account" is wholly a matter of incorrect speculation without foundation in fact. Not one of General Washington's orders calls for what today would be characterized as war crimes. In numerous orders, he called for restraint and also punishment for those who committed improper acts that would amount to abuses or war crimes. All of his general orders, among his papers, are online via the Library of Congress.
    He's right, Don. Washington did condone violence against Torries in New York.

    General George Washington seems to have approved mob persecution of the Tories. In 1776 General Israel Putnam, one of Washington's generals, met a procession of the Sons of Liberty parading a number of Tories on rails up and down the streets of New York and he attempted to halt this inhuman proceeding. On hearing this, Washington reprimanded General Putnam, stating that "to discourage such proceedings was to injure the cause of liberty in which they were engaged, and that nobody would attempt it but an enemy of his country."

    http://www.fortklock.com/loyalistspersecution.htm
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Israeli airstrike kills senior Hamas rocket maker

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    the acts are similar but fundamental differences exist, you say
    please point out the fundamental differences you find that make this an inappropriate comparison
    Well first, the "loyalists" that typically had these things occuring were members of militias or regiments and thus not just non-combat citizens but an actual opposition force. This is different then the decidingly civilian targets common amongst terrorists.

    Additionally, one must look at the scope as well when ones talking about these things. "Proportionality" I believe is what your type likes to trot out. Tarring and Feathering someone for the hopes of shaming and embarassing is leagues different in its proportionality than setting off bombs.

    Your dishonest attempts at crying about those that fleed to Canada and other areas was of course lacking, which is not surprising. These individuals were loyal to the Crown and who they felt should be the rightful leader, as such they opposed the notion of the America's. They identified with England and where in essence still citizens under the Crown, not Americans. Why would they just stay in the country then after the British have been driven out and no longer have control? Why would they be allowed to stay within a country they actively worked against or wish no citizenship to?

    Not to mention the legions of other differences. There was no hope and desire by the Founding Fathers for the end of the British existance in general, to end the British way of life. There was no continual effort after the fact to continue to attack British citizens or to punish the British for being in locations close to the colonies still. One can not simply look at only the efforts of terrorists to "free" their countries and ignore all else those groups do when attempting to compare one thing to another as if its a legitimate and worth while comparison.

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    Re: Israeli airstrike kills senior Hamas rocket maker

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    i see it differently
    his reversing general putnam's order, directing the soldiers to end their riding the loyalists thru the streets on a rail, indicates Washington believed it acceptable to mistreat the civilians who were disloyal to the patriots' cause, in NYC in 1776
    sorry to disappoint you, but many of the founding fathers actually had clay feet
    Please provide link to evidence of Washington reversing general Putnam's order? Don actually provided this thing called "EVIDENCE" showing a pattern of good treatment towards civilians by Washington. All you've provided is your own statements, which are highly dubious by your comments throughout this thread, suggesting that such an order took place.

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    Re: Israeli airstrike kills senior Hamas rocket maker

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    He's right, Don. Washington did condone violence against Torries in New York.
    Am I misunderstanding that the Torries were part of militias and regiments of the English, generally armed in some way, that were not merely citizens that disagreed with what the revolutionaries were doing but were active participants in the opposition of them?

    If we bomb the house of a key politician in a country we are at war in, that is not terrorism. Likewise, raiding the house of a Governor of the British whose loyalty lies there and is acting against the revolution is not terrorism either. Its an attack on an official, which while not military, is not strictly civilian either.

    At worst, you have a suggestion that some founders...such as Adams and his Sons of Liberty...were terrorist groups in nature. However that is a far stretch from suggesting the founders as a whole, or the revolution as a whole, is "no different" than terrorists today as you're taking what is a small segment and suggesting that to be the overriding fact despite the glaring evidence to the contrary when looking at a larger scale. EVEN if we are to acknowledge the SOL acts as "terrorism", to use that to slander the entire revolution and founders would mean that Justabubba...along with Loving Hitler...must agree that Muslims are Terrorists, because apparently a small segment acting poorly means the entire grouping is of that classification.

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    Re: Israeli airstrike kills senior Hamas rocket maker

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Am I misunderstanding that the Torries were part of militias and regiments of the English, generally armed in some way, that were not merely citizens that disagreed with what the revolutionaries were doing but were active participants in the opposition of them?

    If we bomb the house of a key politician in a country we are at war in, that is not terrorism. Likewise, raiding the house of a Governor of the British whose loyalty lies there and is acting against the revolution is not terrorism either. Its an attack on an official, which while not military, is not strictly civilian either.
    the loyalists were estimated to comprise about 1/3 of the population
    they were active in the fight under the command of the british
    but many were civilians and they were terrorized by our forefathers
    the lessons of history can be a bitch, such as this one
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Re: Israeli airstrike kills senior Hamas rocket maker

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    Happy to live in peace....thats beautiful. Unfortunately, does not apply to Hamas and their supporters. You will notice that I didn't say Palestinians. Existence as a Palestinian is an accident of birth. To be Hamas is a choice. Hamas have been offered peace on many, many occasions and they have spit on it each and every time.
    ric

    Many people consider those who support and tolerate the actions of the Irgun/Likud party in Israel to be terrorists. I guess it just depends on which side of the fence you are on. The vast majority of Israeli Jews and Palistinian Muslims want the same things, peace, security, prosperity and freedom. The leaders of both sides are complict in causing and funding the murder and mayhem. From it's inception Israel has glorified and even elected several admitted and proud terrorist murderers to high office. The same can be said of the Palistinian authorities over the years. As long as people like Begin, Sharon, Arafat etc. are honored by their constituents, this idiocy and insanity will continue. War is a racket that is staged and choreographed by those who profit by selling battlefield expendables. Find out who makes money selling bullets and bombs and then you'll know who is behind all bloody conflicts.

    WAR IS A RACKET!!!

    NEW RELEASE, 113 pages with ALL NEW COVER DESIGN

    EXCERPT:

    "WAR is a racket. It always has been. It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives. A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of the people. Only a small "inside" group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few, at the expense of the very many. Out of war a few people make huge fortunes.In the World War [I] a mere handful garnered the profits of the conflict. At least 21,000 new millionaires and billionaires were made in the United States during the World War. That many admitted their huge blood gains in their income tax returns. How many other war millionaires falsified their tax returns no one knows. How many of these war millionaires shouldered a rifle? How many of them dug a trench? How many of them knew what it meant to go hungry in a rat-infested dug-out? How many of them spent sleepless, frightened nights, ducking shells and shrapnel and machine gun bullets? How many of them parried a bayonet thrust of an enemy? How many of them were wounded or killed in battle?"

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    Re: Israeli airstrike kills senior Hamas rocket maker

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Am I misunderstanding that the Torries were part of militias and regiments of the English, generally armed in some way, that were not merely citizens that disagreed with what the revolutionaries were doing but were active participants in the opposition of them?

    If we bomb the house of a key politician in a country we are at war in, that is not terrorism. Likewise, raiding the house of a Governor of the British whose loyalty lies there and is acting against the revolution is not terrorism either. Its an attack on an official, which while not military, is not strictly civilian either.

    At worst, you have a suggestion that some founders...such as Adams and his Sons of Liberty...were terrorist groups in nature. However that is a far stretch from suggesting the founders as a whole, or the revolution as a whole, is "no different" than terrorists today as you're taking what is a small segment and suggesting that to be the overriding fact despite the glaring evidence to the contrary when looking at a larger scale. EVEN if we are to acknowledge the SOL acts as "terrorism", to use that to slander the entire revolution and founders would mean that Justabubba...along with Loving Hitler...must agree that Muslims are Terrorists, because apparently a small segment acting poorly means the entire grouping is of that classification.
    Yes, you are. There weren't any English Militias, because the British Army wouldn't allow it. The Brits fielded a very conventional army. Pride, honor, a lack of understanding of the ground where they found themselves deployed and the accepted rules of war of the time period, wouldn't allow them field assymetrical units.

    There were some tories that served in the British army, but not many. The British had a hard time trusting the tories, was the main reason.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  10. #60
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    Re: Israeli airstrike kills senior Hamas rocket maker

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    the loyalists were estimated to comprise about 1/3 of the population
    Source? The numbers I'm seeing in my search puts them at 1/5 to 1/6th of the population, roughly 15 to 20%.

    they were active in the fight under the command of the british
    Well thanks, you at least destroy your own point for me.

    but many were civilians and they were terrorized by our forefathers
    the lessons of history can be a bitch, such as this one
    I know, it is my Obama loving islam = terrorist believing friend, it is. Especially when one realizes it through their own words. Read one quote box up and you'll realize the fallacy of your argument.

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