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Thread: Judge blocks part of controversial Arizona immigration law

  1. #171
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    Re: Judge blocks part of controversial Arizona immigration law

    Quote Originally Posted by cholla View Post
    Judge Boltons brief does not say that AZ law enforcement cannot check immigration status, it says that they are not required to check. They may still check if they want to.
    Which is interesting because the AZ law didn't mandate checking either... Love the tizzy liberals are in over this law. it is like they LIKE illegal immigrants or something...
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    Re: Judge blocks part of controversial Arizona immigration law

    Dana,

    Every day in this country there are abuses of the law and violations of it by both cops and citizens. Should we get rid of Traffic laws because there's a handful of cops in Alabama that decide to pull over a bunch of blacks cause htey're racist? Should we get rid of laws about noise complaints when its used to harass those living around an influencial individuals house? Should we not allow the police to collect evidence because some have stolen evidence before? Should we take all their guns, clubs, and tasers away because some have acted irresponsabily with it.

    Its amazing how people when arguing the 2nd amendment and other things demand personal responsability, but the moment its something they dislike sure, blame the object and not the person.

    Did that particular case have any time for actual legitimate action to be taken against it? A proper investigation? A case ruling on the legality of what he did under the law? If he had anything that qualified as reasonable suspicion? Hell, your BLOG by some random lady who just documents incidents she's been "told" about even knowledges the thing you spoke about occured BEFORE the law was even signed, so attributing it to that law is idiotic.

    This idiotic writer of your blog continues to critique the ARIZONA law by talking about its "second" victim.....that was in ILLINOIS. I also highly am dubious of this womans claims of Mr. Lowe's claims as they simply don't make any rational legal sense from what I understand of the law in regards to what "probable cause" is.

    Its disgusting, pure and simple disgusting, that you even insult those individuals that died in Africa to compare this in any way to Aparthied and nothing but a sick emotional ploy on your part that you're far better than Dana. The woman that wrote this, regardless of her pedigree, is a bafoon and parroting her line does not make you look good in the slightest.

  3. #173
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    Re: Judge blocks part of controversial Arizona immigration law

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    I know what reasonable suspicion means, but answer me this. What would be reasonable suspicion for being an illegal alien, how does one look like they are here illegally?
    Your Star,

    You raise a good question. Implementation can be tricky. If one thinks in terms of probabilities, the principle of "reasonable suspicion" is lesser than "probable cause." The latter assumes that it is likely that something has occurred.

    The U.S. Supreme Court's Terry v. Ohio ruling provided the operative definition:

    The reasonableness of any particular search and seizure must be assessed in light of the particular circumstances against the standard of whether a man of reasonable caution is warranted in believing that the action taken was appropriate.

    Were the issue of a person's status in the U.S. to be raised, the legal system would have to determine whether it was reasonable to raise such an issue "in light of the particular circumstances" involved.

    Implementation of the principle, even as it is well-established, can be a complex issue, particularly when new legal ground is being broken, as the Arizona statute attempted to do. Prior to Judge Bolton's injunction, police agencies and district attorneys were studying that matter, among others. Implementation of the "reasonable suspicion" principle is far from a cut-and-dried, non-controversial issue. There is a lot of ambiguity and errors can be made. Bad implementation would properly lead to a dismissal of the related charges.

    Excerpts from a news article concerning Maricopa County that touches on the complexity of that issue follow:

    With the state’s new immigration law set to take effect at the end of this month, police agencies are receiving not only training materials but guidelines from the County Attorney's office as to what will make a case stick.

    In the document cited by the news story, officers would have been required to provide an explanation "of the reasonable suspicion for questioning citizenship." Hence, a paper trail would have been established.

    Finally, the judge's injunction concerned matters other than the "reasonable suspicion" principle, which is well-established, even if implementation can be complex. It was those other defects coupled with her view that the U.S. was "likely" to prevail with regard to those legal issues and that the failure to issue an injunction would have led to "irreparable harm" that was the basis of her decision to issue the injunction.

  4. #174
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    Re: Judge blocks part of controversial Arizona immigration law

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    The law SPECIFICALLY PROHIBITS this....

    Also, as for supremecy, are you arguing that state governments have ZERO authority to enforce ANY federal law?

    Also, the legislature of AZ was not passing immigration legislation, they were legislating the behavior of illegals already in the state.
    I think you're confused...

    I was stating its irrelevant to whether or not someone thinks the Arizona law makes racial profiling legal or not (which it doesn't), because based on the Surpremacy clause it wouldn't matter. FEDERALLY racial profiling in the instance of reasonable suspicion is illegal, so it wouldn't matter if Arizona's law said "Racially profile those brown folks to gain reasonable suspicion", it would still be illegal to do so.

    I'm not saying Arizona's law does that, on the contrary I think it doesn't, but someone asked me to point out why I was saying it already was illegal for people to use racial profiling with this law and thus I did.

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    Re: Judge blocks part of controversial Arizona immigration law

    Orion,

    No suggestion that the Judge was unduly influenced by members of the Obama Administratin or other critics of the bill? No suggestion that the open borders lobby attempted influence on her? No wondering about what "extras" the Judge may've got for her ruling?

    That's funny, these were all the type of things you wondered about the last time we had a story about a judge ordering an injunction on a controversial government action.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    The oil industry at work. It's hard to have effective governance when corporations have more pull these days. I wonder what extras this judge got for his ruling.

  6. #176
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    Re: Judge blocks part of controversial Arizona immigration law

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    Judge blocks part of controversial Arizona immigration law This Just In - CNN.com Blogs

    I dont know why it says blogs, but this is all over the news right now. Just happened.
    I expect this to go all the way to the supreme court with liberal judges blocking parts of it or trying to strike it down along the way.So I am not surprised. I just hope we do not have to wait years for it to make it to the suprume court for them to rule in favor of the law.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

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  7. #177
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    Re: Judge blocks part of controversial Arizona immigration law

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    I expect this to go all the way to the supreme court with liberal judges blocking parts of it or trying to strike it down along the way.So I am not surprised. I just hope we do not have to wait years for it to make it to the suprume court for them to rule in favor of the law.
    Yeah, because the Ninth Circuit isn't very liberal nor does it have much of a record of it itself being overturned by the Supremes, does it?
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    Re: Judge blocks part of controversial Arizona immigration law

    SOunds to me like the states ought to play this out fully...no more cooperation with the feds on ANY federal investigations. No getting involved with enforcement of federal laws...no investigating FDIC Banks that get robbed nor responding to those robberies. No more involvment whatsoever with the ICE or immigration. After all...the states cant be meddling with stopping federal crimes.

    I suspect this will go to the trial first, then the 9th, then it will all be tossed out by the SCOTUS.

    Additionally...every state negatively impacted by illegal immigration ought to file a lawsuit against the fed for negligence in enforcing their laws and should sue the fed in civil court for damages...cost for social services, as should every private citizen impacted by illegal immigration.

  9. #179
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    Re: Judge blocks part of controversial Arizona immigration law

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Yeah, because the Ninth Circuit isn't very liberal nor does it have much of a record of it itself being overturned by the Supremes, does it?
    This is why I expected the new Arizona law to go all the way to the supreme court. Obama and other pro-illegals know that at some point before going all the way to the Supreme court the law will be tied up for a while. Which will give them plenty of time to push for amnesty once the public is immune to the fact that they are trying to screw local states out of cracking down on illegals.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  10. #180
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    Re: Judge blocks part of controversial Arizona immigration law

    People who are against this bill are either not from Arizona or just extremely ignorant.

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