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Thread: Judge blocks part of controversial Arizona immigration law

  1. #161
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    Re: Judge blocks part of controversial Arizona immigration law

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    WTF Do you mean "how does one look like".
    It isn't about physical ****ing appearances. Or do you wish for it to be to support your preconceived idea that this is just racial profiling?

    Why don't drop the ignorant ass loaded questions and respond in a way that makes me think you actually care about the exchange of ideas instead of just bickering.
    Still didn't answer my question, what qualifies for reasonable suspicion for being an illegal alien?
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    Re: Judge blocks part of controversial Arizona immigration law

    Quote Originally Posted by TBone View Post
    That assumption is correct, the law still requires az police to enforce FEDERAL immigration statues of those they arrest, or those that are here illegally. It does not allow AZ to charge them with a crime of trespassing.
    Thus.... This AZ law was created to supplement the 287g program that was already in place.

    Do I think it was necessary? Not really. I don't see anything wrong with the law in itself. But my disagreement with the law has little to do with jumping up and down like a 9 year old who doesn't know **** yelling "RACISM RACISM RACISM"

    My problem with the law is that it will make illegal immigrants less likely to report crimes to the authorities because they will then be investigated. This will make them very easy targets for LEGAL resident criminals to victimize them. And THAT is the only legitimate, in my opinion, reason why this law should be opposed.
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

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    Re: Judge blocks part of controversial Arizona immigration law

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    Still didn't answer my question, what qualifies for reasonable suspicion for being an illegal alien?
    The question is not directly answerable. It depends on a number of different articulatable facts. It isn't A +B +C = Reasonable Suspicion.

    A + B + C = Probable Cause that an actual crime has been committed (A, B, and C being the specific elements of said crime). However, Reasonable suspicion has to take into account the totality of the circumstances, what the officers knows, what he knows from his experience, what he may know about this particular individual, how he came about this knowledge, etc. Such facts must be able to be explained before a judge to determine whether the temporary detention was reasonable, in a case where such a detention even occurred.

    Reasonable Suspicion is not grounds to arrest someone and transport them to a jail. Re-read the original bill for what occurrs after said reasonable suspicion has been obtained.
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

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    Re: Judge blocks part of controversial Arizona immigration law

    Quote Originally Posted by cholla View Post
    Will you show where this is illegal? other than the 1070 law that was just castrated.
    Sure, its a couple things.

    First, the supremecy clause, which designates that federal law over rules state. Second, the SCOTUS has found that in a DIRECT sense, exercising rasonable suspicion based singularly on the facet of race is unconstitutional and thus illegal. Additionally you have U.S. v. Montero-Camargo which found that race can not be part of a broader group of reasonings either. The only time when its currently legal to use race is for searching for a specific suspect, such as when you KNOW that the perpetrator based on eye witness reports is white/black/hispanic/etc.

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    Re: Judge blocks part of controversial Arizona immigration law

    Judge Boltons brief does not say that AZ law enforcement cannot check immigration status, it says that they are not required to check. They may still check if they want to.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    Lets ask this: If AZ law enforcement can't check to see who is legal, then who can? What government agency is authorized to "check".. How many of them do we have? How often, and under what circumstances do they "check" legal status?

    Don't you all see what a mess this is?


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    Re: Judge blocks part of controversial Arizona immigration law

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    Actually, the ability of racist Arizona cops to do THIS was struck down. A trucker was stopped in Arizona, and had his driver's license in order. However, he was not carrying his birth certificate with him, so he was thrown in jail. Who the hell carries their birth certificates with them at all times?
    There may be more to this story than even you know. Why are we supposed to believe some social networking site, and one guy's opinion about this? That doesn't seem like sound, and reasonable to me.

    Look Dana, we have a huge problem in this country with illegal immigration. Just as with a plumbing problem, you stop the flow first, then fix the problem. Why are you opposed to that?


    That trucker is an AMERICAN CITIZEN, who was born in Fresno, California. What Arizonans want to do smacks of South African apartheid. I know I am not supposed to judge people by where they are from, but I can't help feeling that the majority of Arizonans who support that law, and most of them do, would have made outstanding German citizens in the 1930's. Anyways, his rights were clearly violated. When a state law enables violations like this to happen, then it is not only the right of the Federal government to step in, but the duty of the Feds to step in.
    Oh, so now we are all Nazi's if we want to control our borders eh? Way to go! Way to make yourself irrelevant in this discussion.


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    Re: Judge blocks part of controversial Arizona immigration law

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    Still didn't answer my question, what qualifies for reasonable suspicion for being an illegal alien?
    There's no laundry list of specific things, just like you're not going to open a book to find "101 examples of definitive probable cause". It is a judgement call on the part of the officers, which is something done throughout this country on a daily basis in a plethora of other circumstnaces. It is not however carte blanche to do as they like as they need to be able to articulate the specific facts that gave them a reasoanble belief to superiors or a judge if necessary and a "hunch" or a "gut feeling" or something of the sort is not justification for reasonable suspicion.

    Things that I think would probably make sense?

    Someone pulled over for a traffic violation and not having a lisense. Its reasonable to suspect that someone whose doing that illegal act may not have the lisence due to other illegal activity.

    Someone working in a business when its found the business did not file the proper tax paperwork for him. Again, reasonable to suspect the reason that would happen is due to other illegal activity occuring.

    Someone found on a known drug route out of Mexico transporting drugs. Once more, reasonable to suspect that under such situations other illegal activity is occuring.

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    Re: Judge blocks part of controversial Arizona immigration law

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    I know what reasonable suspicion means, but answer me this. What would be reasonable suspicion for being an illegal alien, how does one look like they are here illegally?
    You mean, for example, being pulled over for a traffic violation and not having a driver's license or registration for the car? I don't know -- why don't you ask LEOs who have been doing this as a career. They say it isn't that difficult.
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    Re: Judge blocks part of controversial Arizona immigration law

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Sure, its a couple things.

    First, the supremecy clause, which designates that federal law over rules state. Second, the SCOTUS has found that in a DIRECT sense, exercising rasonable suspicion based singularly on the facet of race is unconstitutional and thus illegal. Additionally you have U.S. v. Montero-Camargo which found that race can not be part of a broader group of reasonings either. The only time when its currently legal to use race is for searching for a specific suspect, such as when you KNOW that the perpetrator based on eye witness reports is white/black/hispanic/etc.
    The law SPECIFICALLY PROHIBITS this....

    Also, as for supremecy, are you arguing that state governments have ZERO authority to enforce ANY federal law?

    Also, the legislature of AZ was not passing immigration legislation, they were legislating the behavior of illegals already in the state.
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    Re: Judge blocks part of controversial Arizona immigration law

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    What makes it political and not her reading of the law? Is everything you disagree with political?


    oh I don't know, that the 1st judge upheld it, now this Clinton appointed judge oversteps her authority?
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