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Thread: Judge blocks part of controversial Arizona immigration law

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    Re: Judge blocks part of controversial Arizona immigration law

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    Good ruling. The thing is, that if they checked the legal status of everyone, I'd be fine with this law. But the whole reasonable suspicion thing, is bull. It might as well say if you catch any person who looks latino check them to see if they are legal.
    Doesn't everyone have to carry a driver's license when driving a car? According to Susan Bolton, illegals don't have to keep any kind of ID on their person; and she's denied police officers--in accordance with their duty--the ability to enforce the law.

    This is a travesty of justice. I wonder what Obama promised her.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Judge blocks part of controversial Arizona immigration law

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    I don't see how anyone can honestly say that the AZ law won't lead to racial profiling, considering where AZ is geographically located and that illegals tend to be hispanic.

    I would actually find it to be more honest and realistic if someone just came out and said, "We SHOULD be profiling hispanics to see if they are legal." I mean, it would be unPC, but at least that's the honest truth of what the law makers are beating around the bush about. But no, we're just going to pretend that it's an innocent law for the security of America and we're just going to catch people as they commit other crimes.

    The level of bull****ting here is just off the scale. I agree that enforcement of the law should be suspended until the Fed case goes through.
    Would you be saying the same thing if it were white people that were the illegal aliens?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Judge blocks part of controversial Arizona immigration law

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    As far as the judge's intention. I'm not sure the judge had any "intention". The injunction is simply th mechanism whereby the judge makes an initial determination that those aspects of the law are "likely" to be found unconstitutional. THAT isn't surprising. Even a number of conservative legal scholars indicated that the law might have problems withstanding Constitutional challenges.
    Except that the government is mounting a facial challenge, not an as-applied challenge, and a facial challenge requires, for success, a demonstration the law can never be applied in a Constitutional manner -- and hypotheticals cannot meet that test. The burden, of course, is on the plaintiff to establish this, that it can never be applied in a Constitional manner. Which means all Arizona has to do is show a way in which it could be. Thus, it's rather dubious that the feds are "likely" to succeed, which is what's required for a preliminary injunction.

    Also, a facial challenge fails when the state has a "plainly legitimate sweep." In deciding that there isn't one, a court may not go beyond the facial requirements of the law, nor may it use hypotheticals. Thus any theories about what "could" happen may not be considered; only the text of the law may be. So making an argument saying "sure, the law says THAT, but THIS could happen" (think "sure, the law says no racial profiling, but the officers could do it anyway") fails under a facial challenge. Yet she ruled the feds are "likely to succeed."
    Last edited by Harshaw; 07-28-10 at 10:36 PM.
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    Re: Judge blocks part of controversial Arizona immigration law

    The way I see it is that AZ did what they did because the FEDERAL GOV'T failed the citizens of this COUNTRY not just AZ by not securing out border. I do not agree with what they did, BUT I UNDERSTAND why they did it.

    There are defeats and wins for both sides as a result of 1070 being passed and in it being injuncted (sic). It helped bring the issue to the front because both Republicans and Democrats did NOTHING in the past to protect our border. We have a WAR going on on the Mexican border. And, still don't see US tanks, Copters, etc, patrolling it. Instead I see two parties using this to get themselves votes.

    I believe yesterday, an article came out that stated the cartels had severed the head of several victims. Severed heads discovered in Mexico state - UPI.com

    Believe it or not, the injunction can hurts those that are protesting the law. If the law is struck down, this issue could possibly go back to the back. And, it will not force both parties to sit down and figure out the issues, so the path to citizenship will continue to be a major pain in the A$$.
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    Re: Judge blocks part of controversial Arizona immigration law

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Doesn't everyone have to carry a driver's license when driving a car? According to Susan Bolton, illegals don't have to keep any kind of ID on their person; and she's denied police officers--in accordance with their duty--the ability to enforce the law.

    This is a travesty of justice. I wonder what Obama promised her.
    It is against the AZ law to fail to produce ID.
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    Re: Judge blocks part of controversial Arizona immigration law

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Doesn't everyone have to carry a driver's license when driving a car? According to Susan Bolton, illegals don't have to keep any kind of ID on their person; and she's denied police officers--in accordance with their duty--the ability to enforce the law.

    This is a travesty of justice. I wonder what Obama promised her.
    Don't you realize that one can commit a crime without being in a car.

  7. #137
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    Re: Judge blocks part of controversial Arizona immigration law

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    Don't you realize that one can commit a crime without being in a car.
    You are correct. That was one of the arguments raised successfully against part of the statute with respect to the temporary injunction. Judge Bolton noted:

    ...the United States suggests that the impact on lawfully-present aliens is enhanced because this requirement applies to stops for even very minor, non-criminal violations of state law, including jaywalking, failing to have a dog on a leash, or riding a bicycle on the sidewalk. (Id. at 28.)...

    Hines cautions against imposing burdens on lawfully-present aliens such as those described above.


    In fact, the applicable language in the Arizona Legislation stated was expansive:

    IF AN ALIEN WHO IS UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES IS CONVICTED OF A VIOLATION OF STATE OR LOCAL LAW, ON DISCHARGE FROM IMPRISONMENT OR ASSESSMENT OF ANY FINE THAT IS IMPOSED, THE ALIEN SHALL BE TRANSFERRED IMMEDIATELY TO THE CUSTODY OF THE UNITED STATES IMMIGRATION AND CUSTOMS ENFORCEMENT OR THE UNITED STATES CUSTOMS AND BORDER PROTECTION.

    The broad language referring to "a violation of state or local law" makes clear that the Arizona law covered more than driving-related offenses.
    Last edited by donsutherland1; 07-29-10 at 12:01 AM.

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    Re: Judge blocks part of controversial Arizona immigration law

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    I don't see how anyone can honestly say that the AZ law won't lead to racial profiling, considering where AZ is geographically located and that illegals tend to be hispanic.
    And what about that makes it automatic that people are going to just stop following the law.

    Inner city crime is typically disproportionately performed by blacks, yet we don't have cops frisking every other black person in a city for guns, drugs, or illegal items simply because they're black and thus suspicious. That ALSO requires reasonable suspicion, just like this law, and also doesn't allow racial profiling to happen.

    Where is this notion coming from that illegality is automatically going to become common place?

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    Re: Judge blocks part of controversial Arizona immigration law

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    It can be.

    However "He's mexican" can not be used as reasonable suspicion as that is racial profiling and racial profiling is illegal.

    Even JUST a DUI would not necessarily likely give means to have reasonable suspicion as there's no real reasonable way to articulate why its more likely that a person whose not legally in the country is going to be driving drunk than someone who isn't.

    However if someones pulled over for DUI and doesn't have a license, that would likely be a legitimate thing to have a reasonable suspicion as its likely able to hold up articulating that the reason you asked for his papers is because its realistic to think someone that doesn't have a license could be that way because they can't legally get one.

    Simply charging someone with a Crime doesn't suddenly make racial profiling legal, under this law or any other law. There's no way, under federal laws, to go "That man is mexican, I am using that as a basis for my search" other than situations where there is a very specific and narrowly defined subject (Such as "A 5'5" mexican man in blue jeans and a red t-shirt just robbed my store")
    Will you show where this is illegal? other than the 1070 law that was just castrated.

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    Re: Judge blocks part of controversial Arizona immigration law

    Quote Originally Posted by cholla View Post
    other than the 1070 law that was just castrated.
    It seems, no authority other than the ICE may inquire about immigration status...

    I reckon it stops enactment of AZ SB 1070

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