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Thread: Judge blocks part of controversial Arizona immigration law

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    Re: Judge blocks part of controversial Arizona immigration law

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Wait a minute...It is my understanding that in a DUI one is arrested, is that right? If so the subjects immigration status can, should, and will be checked.

    j-mac
    If you are driving and you don't have a license to drive, or have a license that is obviously fake, any person, in any State can expect to go to jail, directly to jail, and not pass go for 72 hours or until their identity has been determined. If said person is found to have a fake license they can expect to stay in jail for some time.

    None of the above is new.
    There is no such thing as a “Natural Born Dual-Citizen“.

    Originally Posted by PogueMoran
    I didnt have to read the article to tell you that you cant read.

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    Re: Judge blocks part of controversial Arizona immigration law

    Quote Originally Posted by Crunch View Post
    If you are driving and you don't have a license to drive, or have a license that is obviously fake, any person, in any State can expect to go to jail, directly to jail, and not pass go for 72 hours or until their identity has been determined. If said person is found to have a fake license they can expect to stay in jail for some time.

    None of the above is new.

    Exactly right.


    j-mac
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    Re: Judge blocks part of controversial Arizona immigration law

    "Requiring Arizona law enforcement officials and agencies to determine the immigration status of every person who is arrested burdens lawfully-present aliens because their liberty will be restricted while their status is checked," U.S. District Judge Susan Bolton ruled.
    But forcing law-biding citizens to submit to a background check when buying a gun?
    Well, that’s OK.

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    Re: Judge blocks part of controversial Arizona immigration law

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    But forcing law-biding citizens to submit to a background check when buying a gun?
    Well, that’s OK.
    Sure. Not race based.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Judge blocks part of controversial Arizona immigration law

    Quote Originally Posted by SE102 View Post
    Good luck enforcing the law WITHOUT racially profiling when the majority of illegals are mexican. And the majority of mexicans are legal.

    I wonder how the legal mexicans feel about this.
    I have no problem with racially profiling in this case and profiling in general. Profiling is just a method, and a very successful one, in tracking criminals. We would be stupid not to profile so let's stop being coy about it. The concept of racial profiling has become a sham. True racial profiling would be to insert race into the profile for the specific purpose of excluding other legitimate suspects or to just "find a black guy to blame" or for the purpose of harrasing some minority. You have to profile in this case and the profile cannot exclude latino or latino looking folks because in Arizona at least it is a significant factor. This can't be some quota system where we hassle an equal number of white people to make everyone else feel good. And we shouldn't use only race in the profile which they are not. I swear people on both sides of this are acting like children.

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    Re: Judge blocks part of controversial Arizona immigration law

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Sure. Not race based.
    Nor is the immigration check. It applies to everyone.

    Please -- given what was said, make the case that background checks do -not- burden law-abiding citizens because their liberty will -not- be restricted while their status is checked

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    Re: Judge blocks part of controversial Arizona immigration law

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Wait a minute...It is my understanding that in a DUI one is arrested, is that right? If so the subjects immigration status can, should, and will be checked.

    j-mac
    It can be.

    However "He's mexican" can not be used as reasonable suspicion as that is racial profiling and racial profiling is illegal.

    Even JUST a DUI would not necessarily likely give means to have reasonable suspicion as there's no real reasonable way to articulate why its more likely that a person whose not legally in the country is going to be driving drunk than someone who isn't.

    However if someones pulled over for DUI and doesn't have a license, that would likely be a legitimate thing to have a reasonable suspicion as its likely able to hold up articulating that the reason you asked for his papers is because its realistic to think someone that doesn't have a license could be that way because they can't legally get one.

    Simply charging someone with a Crime doesn't suddenly make racial profiling legal, under this law or any other law. There's no way, under federal laws, to go "That man is mexican, I am using that as a basis for my search" other than situations where there is a very specific and narrowly defined subject (Such as "A 5'5" mexican man in blue jeans and a red t-shirt just robbed my store")

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    Re: Judge blocks part of controversial Arizona immigration law

    Quote Originally Posted by jambalaya View Post
    I have no problem with racially profiling in this case and profiling in general. Profiling is just a method, and a very successful one, in tracking criminals. We would be stupid not to profile so let's stop being coy about it. The concept of racial profiling has become a sham. True racial profiling would be to insert race into the profile for the specific purpose of excluding other legitimate suspects or to just "find a black guy to blame" or for the purpose of harrasing some minority. You have to profile in this case and the profile cannot exclude latino or latino looking folks because in Arizona at least it is a significant factor. This can't be some quota system where we hassle an equal number of white people to make everyone else feel good. And we shouldn't use only race in the profile which they are not. I swear people on both sides of this are acting like children.
    So If Im mexican I should deal with having to possibly prove my citizenship everywhere I go possibly. Even if I were legal. At the risk of ending up detained for not having papers?

    I dont care about catching illegals that much. Its the legals that may suffer due to this that bothers me.

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    Re: Judge blocks part of controversial Arizona immigration law

    Quote Originally Posted by SE102 View Post
    Good luck enforcing the law WITHOUT racially profiling when the majority of illegals are mexican. And the majority of mexicans are legal.

    I wonder how the legal mexicans feel about this.
    It affecting a disproportionate amount of Hispanic people than white people != racial profiling.

    Racial Profiling is taking action based on the notion that someone is of [X] race and therefore that is reason to do whatever you're going to do.

    Reasonable Suspicion requires the officer be able to articulate the reasonings behind their action, stating "He looked mexican" is not a legal reasoning.

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    Re: Judge blocks part of controversial Arizona immigration law

    Quote Originally Posted by SE102 View Post
    So If Im mexican I should deal with having to possibly prove my citizenship everywhere I go possibly. Even if I were legal. At the risk of ending up detained for not having papers?

    I dont care about catching illegals that much. Its the legals that may suffer due to this that bothers me.
    Or...they may not. Police are trained in field interviews. They're not perfect but they've got no logical reason to be harassing legal residents. There are plenty of Hispanic cops in Arizona, too.
    Using the logic some of the people in this thread are using (not saying you) we should get rid of half our laws because some cop somewhere might abuse their power. If a cop abuses they should be punished. As simple as that. You don't get rid of the law because of it. That's throwing the baby out with the bath water.

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