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Thread: Mass. Legislature approves plan to bypass Electoral College

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    Re: Mass. Legislature approves plan to bypass Electoral College

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    They do have some but not as much as there are Democrats.
    Either way it doesn't matter because they have the largest population so they will have the most sway.

    My state is largely ignored as it is, except for Atlanta.
    You're not understanding the point. I live in California, while California usually always votes Democratic, there are huge numbers of citizens in California who vote Republican, and because of the EC these votes are made irrelevant because while California always goes blue, it is usually roughly on a 50/40%. That makes 40% of California's population (who are voting Republican) completely irrelevant in the election.

    The fact that California as a state would hold sway in the election seems to be a matter of pride for you, but the fact remains is that California is a very influential and powerful state as a whole. However, the allowance of a national popular vote would greatly benefit Republicans concerning California.
    Last edited by The Dane; 07-27-10 at 09:13 PM.
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    Re: Mass. Legislature approves plan to bypass Electoral College

    Quote Originally Posted by The Dane View Post
    You're not understanding the point. I live in California, while California usually always votes Democratic, there are huge numbers of citizens in California who vote Republican, and because of the EC these votes are made irrelevant because while California always goes blue, it is usually roughly on a 50/40%. That makes 40% of California's population (who are voting Republican) completely irrelevant in the election.

    The fact that California as a state would hold sway in the election seems to be a matter of pride for you, but the fact remains is that California is a very influential and powerful state as a whole. However, the allowance of a national popular vote would greatly benefit Republicans concerning California.
    That doesn't benefit me in the least.
    I don't want Republicans or Democrats to win.
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    Re: Mass. Legislature approves plan to bypass Electoral College

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    Thsoe states don't believe in their voters mattering. Hey that's their choice.

    However, you are absolutely wrong in your assessment of the EC. IF the win was just Popular vote, which is Democracy, not the EC Rep. Repub. Candidates would ignore rural areas, low population states and areas. Focus on the top say 10 US Cities. They would be what mattered.
    Exactly..

    To the poster who said NY was mostly democrat. Well, yeah it is, but everything west of NY city is mostly conservative..

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    Re: Mass. Legislature approves plan to bypass Electoral College

    Quote Originally Posted by The Dane View Post
    The way the president is elected, either by a national popular vote, or by the electoral college has nothing to do with a division between a Democracy and a Representative Republic. The constituion guaruntee's a representative republic form of government and does not carry those ideas over to the election of the President.

    Also, the EC does not protect small states, it greatly weakens their role in the election. Candidates will campaign and pay attention to battle ground states leaving the vast majority of smaller states completely out of the picture. I don't know what you mean when you say it will keep politics "national". An EC does very opposite of keeping politics "national" as candidates focus on battle ground states, not a national picture.

    Also it should be noted that they are not alone in this decision:
    Wrong. The EC gives smaller states a larger proportion of the electoral vote for president then they would have in a direct popular vote system...
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    Re: Mass. Legislature approves plan to bypass Electoral College

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Wrong. The EC gives smaller states a larger proportion of the electoral vote for president then they would have in a direct popular vote system...
    Exactly, but the Progressive talking point is to push the lie that the EC somehow "hurts" smaller states. It's an idea that appeals to those that have little understanding of why we do things we do.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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    Re: Mass. Legislature approves plan to bypass Electoral College

    Quote Originally Posted by The Dane View Post
    You're not understanding the point. I live in California, while California usually always votes Democratic, there are huge numbers of citizens in California who vote Republican, and because of the EC these votes are made irrelevant because while California always goes blue, it is usually roughly on a 50/40%. That makes 40% of California's population (who are voting Republican) completely irrelevant in the election.

    The fact that California as a state would hold sway in the election seems to be a matter of pride for you, but the fact remains is that California is a very influential and powerful state as a whole. However, the allowance of a national popular vote would greatly benefit Republicans concerning California.
    But you could same the same in states like Texas which are large and lean Republican. And your point does nothing to address the relative importance of smaller states in the two systems...
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    Re: Mass. Legislature approves plan to bypass Electoral College

    Careful what you wish for. From what I've seen, many blue states win their electoral votes by relatively narrow margins, while a HUGE chunk of red states have at least 60% of their populations voting Republican.

    If it starts getting to the point where you split like Nebraska, even a chunk of California Republicans can really put a dent into the left's plans.

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    Re: Mass. Legislature approves plan to bypass Electoral College

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    Thsoe states don't believe in their voters mattering. Hey that's their choice.

    However, you are absolutely wrong in your assessment of the EC. IF the win was just Popular vote, which is Democracy, not the EC Rep. Repub. Candidates would ignore rural areas, low population states and areas. Focus on the top say 10 US Cities. They would be what mattered.
    I understand your logic, and if this was true then I would agree with you. But I don't think you assessment is correct. For example, in the 2004 election, Democrats took Miami, but they did not take Florida. They also took Cleveland, but they did not take Ohio. When candidates go to battle ground states, they usually do not campaign in the metropolises, and instead focus in urban areas. To put it in perspective, the 25 biggest cities only account for roughly 12% of the population.
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    Re: Mass. Legislature approves plan to bypass Electoral College

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    That doesn't benefit me in the least.
    I don't want Republicans or Democrats to win.
    Ah yes I see you are Libertarian. I'm not quite sure how either the EC or the national popular vote would effect third party candidates.
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    Re: Mass. Legislature approves plan to bypass Electoral College

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    Careful what you wish for. From what I've seen, many blue states win their electoral votes by relatively narrow margins, while a HUGE chunk of red states have at least 60% of their populations voting Republican.

    If it starts getting to the point where you split like Nebraska, even a chunk of California Republicans can really put a dent into the left's plans.


    I actually like the way Maine and Nebraska do it... award 1 EV for each congressional district and 2EVs for state-wide victory. However, serious precautions against Gerrymandering would have to take place for such a system to truly be practical in larger states...
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