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Thread: Britain Plans to Decentralize Health Care

  1. #81
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    Re: Britain Plans to Decentralize Health Care

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    How soon we forget:

    The scandal over treatment of outpatients at Walter Reed Army Medical Center has focused attention on the Army's decision to privatize the facilities support workforce at the hospital, a move commanders say left the building maintenance staff undermanned.

    Privatized Walter Reed Workforce Gets Scrutiny - washingtonpost.com

    We're no where near univerisal care. Personally I would prefer a univerisal provider for a lot of reasons. Remove it from an employer responsibility and allow business to compete fairly with the rest of the world. But, no one has proposed such a system. But, you are right that no matter what we will have a two tiered system. those who can afford more will always have more here in the states. And we will likely always give the very poor something. But the working poor and the middle class have no guaranties. ANd they don't have them without reform.

    Our problems are many, and with people fighting to make reform impossible, it makes doing anything positive hard. But we have a step. Now, the question is what's the next step. Do we buckle down and try to improve? Or do we whine and let those who seek to stop reform win? Which would leave us with nothing.
    You assume that this is 'progress'. Tell me...do you REALLY think they thought out what they did? They passed SOMETHING...ANYTHING...and most of the poepl that support it dont have the first clue what they voted for...or support. You really think thats 'progress?' Hogwash...thats ideology. Its what happens when you allow politics to rule policy. Do tyou think they really have the first clue how much this will cost? And how is that new health care working out for you? They governed with ideology, by ideology, supported by ideologues. The only people that think this is a good idea are people that either wont use it or wont have to pay for it.

    I think I have also posted some of the nightmares at the Army hospitals that may have triggered the Walter Reed situation. Army hospitals with 36 admin personnel for every caregiver. Administrators retired on active duty. I KNOW you have heard me say all areas of government need review including the military...including the hospitals.

    Ive said it since I began posting here...Im not opposed to some form of healthcare reform. But not at the federal level. And even the state care needs carewful scrutiny. The state contracts care through private providers to cover medicare medicaid. A huge portion of that award goes to business owners that dont even live in the state...arent doctors or providers.

    But they passed 'healthcare'

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    Re: Britain Plans to Decentralize Health Care

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    You assume that this is 'progress'. Tell me...do you REALLY think they thought out what they did? They passed SOMETHING...ANYTHING...and most of the poepl that support it dont have the first clue what they voted for...or support. You really think thats 'progress?' Hogwash...thats ideology. Its what happens when you allow politics to rule policy. Do tyou think they really have the first clue how much this will cost? And how is that new health care working out for you? They governed with ideology, by ideology, supported by ideologues. The only people that think this is a good idea are people that either wont use it or wont have to pay for it.

    I think I have also posted some of the nightmares at the Army hospitals that may have triggered the Walter Reed situation. Army hospitals with 36 admin personnel for every caregiver. Administrators retired on active duty. I KNOW you have heard me say all areas of government need review including the military...including the hospitals.

    Ive said it since I began posting here...Im not opposed to some form of healthcare reform. But not at the federal level. And even the state care needs carewful scrutiny. The state contracts care through private providers to cover medicare medicaid. A huge portion of that award goes to business owners that dont even live in the state...arent doctors or providers.

    But they passed 'healthcare'
    I think they did what they could without pushing what was needed through, fearing a larger backlass. And yes, the journay of a thousands miles begins with a single step. On such a journey, that first step looks terribly inadequate. So does this one. But a begining is still a begining.

    I worked some in VA hospitals as a young man. I was a medic in the Army and spent some time at Womack army hospital. I also worked at the University of Iowa hospital and clincs and mercy hospital. I've seen the VA, teaching hospitals and private hospitals. They all have flaws, but compared to the rhetoric, VA hospitals are not as bad as their rep. You also might check this out:

    Stewart: So you just said, Bill Kristol just said that the government can run a first class health care system.

    Kristol: Sure it can

    Kristol admits to Stewart that government run health care is THE BEST! | Crooks and Liars

    Reform, BTW, isn't going to happen at any other level in any effective manner. Hawaii may get it right and Massecuetts wrong. Florida might be rich and ND poor. That said, over all, the states have done the job either. Again, this isn't new. Yet, decades down the road, we still face the same problems, getting worse and worse. I just don't believe anyone else is going to tackle it.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Britain Plans to Decentralize Health Care

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I think they did what they could without pushing what was needed through, fearing a larger backlass. And yes, the journay of a thousands miles begins with a single step. On such a journey, that first step looks terribly inadequate. So does this one. But a begining is still a begining.

    I worked some in VA hospitals as a young man. I was a medic in the Army and spent some time at Womack army hospital. I also worked at the University of Iowa hospital and clincs and mercy hospital. I've seen the VA, teaching hospitals and private hospitals. They all have flaws, but compared to the rhetoric, VA hospitals are not as bad as their rep. You also might check this out:

    Stewart: So you just said, Bill Kristol just said that the government can run a first class health care system.

    Kristol: Sure it can

    Kristol admits to Stewart that government run health care is THE BEST! | Crooks and Liars

    Reform, BTW, isn't going to happen at any other level in any effective manner. Hawaii may get it right and Massecuetts wrong. Florida might be rich and ND poor. That said, over all, the states have done the job either. Again, this isn't new. Yet, decades down the road, we still face the same problems, getting worse and worse. I just don't believe anyone else is going to tackle it.
    The FEDERAL GOVERNMENT has put us into a 14 trillion dollar debt that they are now admitting is unsustainable...and you think creating another trillion dollar debt is a step forward? When you are screaming down a hill with no brakes, yanking on the wheel and going over the cliff is SOMETHING...

    You didnt hear me criticize the healthcare at the VA. I have a significant amount of experience in them myself. My comments are that the VA...like the Army hospital systems, are admin heavy and cost way too much. Thats money that doesnt have to bne spent or could better be applied to servicemembers.

    This plan is a nightmare. THATS why I have objected to it. I support local control...state reform...and tort reform. But FEDERAL control? How deep is that hole going to get before we cant dig out?

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    Re: Britain Plans to Decentralize Health Care

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    The FEDERAL GOVERNMENT has put us into a 14 trillion dollar debt that they are now admitting is unsustainable...and you think creating another trillion dollar debt is a step forward? When you are screaming down a hill with no brakes, yanking on the wheel and going over the cliff is SOMETHING...

    You didnt hear me criticize the healthcare at the VA. I have a significant amount of experience in them myself. My comments are that the VA...like the Army hospital systems, are admin heavy and cost way too much. Thats money that doesnt have to bne spent or could better be applied to servicemembers.

    This plan is a nightmare. THATS why I have objected to it. I support local control...state reform...and tort reform. But FEDERAL control? How deep is that hole going to get before we cant dig out?
    First, we are the govenment. We've accepted a lot of spending long before Obama. Long before Bush told us we could fight two wars and not pay for it. Long before Reagan, Carter and Ford.

    But what I'm arguing is that if you don't like it, as few do, don't throw it out. Work to improve it. This is not the final version. Like all such bills, it will change. We will change it. But nothing happens if we don't start. That's just fact.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Britain Plans to Decentralize Health Care

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    First, we are the govenment. We've accepted a lot of spending long before Obama. Long before Bush told us we could fight two wars and not pay for it. Long before Reagan, Carter and Ford.

    But what I'm arguing is that if you don't like it, as few do, don't throw it out. Work to improve it. This is not the final version. Like all such bills, it will change. We will change it. But nothing happens if we don't start. That's just fact.
    Maybe you have heard me say it...I dont think it is GOING to be thrown out. i doubt the republicans will win back the congress and I doubt they have enough ummmph (or balls) to attempt to throw it out. Democrats will continue to create and pander to the crippled and dependent pets that keep them elected. We will eventually have universal health care. And we will in short order have 17 trillion dollar debt that we wont be able to pay even the interest on. inflation will increase and unemployment will increase.

    I dont think the republicans are answer...two sides of the same coin...Im sure you have seen me say that. We MAY overcome this...but it will take enough citizens to say no more and to vote them ALL out. I dont know when or if THAT will happen. I quite honestly cant foresee what we will look like in 8 years.

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    Re: Britain Plans to Decentralize Health Care

    I wouldn't describe it as Britain climbing out of a hole, but rather the Conservatives inserting their ideology where it doesn't belong by eliminating something that the public actually wants.

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    Re: Britain Plans to Decentralize Health Care

    Quote Originally Posted by chevydriver1123 View Post
    Good to see socialist Europe is somewhat getting it and in turn dismantles many arguments made by the pro-socialist medicine crowd that uses that **** hole Europe as an example.
    That is not the reason UK is getting our UHC touched up. Socialism means nothing to the British. We are not paranoid like the Americans.
    The ONLY reason this is happening is because the ****ing Conservatives are in goddamn office touching what doesn't need to be messed with.

    But I can handle this for another 4 years because they will be leaving next election.
    No touches our NHS and stays in office. Its political ****ing suicide.
    Last edited by Laila; 07-28-10 at 05:31 AM.


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    Re: Britain Plans to Decentralize Health Care

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    That is not the reason UK is getting our UHC touched up. Socialism means nothing to the British. We are not paranoid like the Americans.
    The ONLY reason this is happening is because the ****ing Conservatives are in goddamn office touching what doesn't need to be messed with.

    But I can handle this for another 4 years because they will be leaving next election.
    No touches our NHS and stays in office. Its political ****ing suicide.
    Excactly.. last time the Conservatives did something similar and the opposition had a credible likeable PM candidate, the Conservatives were booted out fast, and stayed in the wilderness for over a decade. Any conservative government that tries to fiddle too much or outright dismantle the UHC system of a country will loose the next election and stay out of office for a very long time. That is why most sane conservative parties are for UHC in Europe.
    PeteEU

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    Re: Britain Plans to Decentralize Health Care

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    I'll start out by saying sorry that I can't source this anymore. I used to have a link directly to the study, but lost it when the website I stored it at was deleted.

    There was a statistical analysis done that I read about in the Sun Times about 2 years ago, in which they removed motor vehicle accidents and violent deaths (murders, etc) from the life expectancy statistics of every country. The result was that by removing these causes of death from all countries, the US was number one in life expectancy by a bit.

    In other words, using life expectancy to argue that one health care system is better than another doesn't quite work. Although, it will never stop some from trying their darndest to shoe-horn it in.
    Listen, that may or may not be true but it is irrelevant. Removing parts of a statistic just because it shows a country in a bad way is not only morally wrong but also statistically wrong. You might kill many people with your bad driving, but so what? It still shortens the average life expectancy of the US. What is next.. removing fat people because you have more than the rest of us? Life expectancy is a statistic that shows the over all health of a country and how good that country is to keep its citizens alive. Some countries have drinking problems, others smoking, and some drive like crazy men.. it is all about the over all health of a country. And a huge part of that over all health, is the ability of the healthcare system to cope and keep people alive.
    PeteEU

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    Re: Britain Plans to Decentralize Health Care

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    That is not the reason UK is getting our UHC touched up. Socialism means nothing to the British. We are not paranoid like the Americans.
    The ONLY reason this is happening is because the ****ing Conservatives are in goddamn office touching what doesn't need to be messed with.

    But I can handle this for another 4 years because they will be leaving next election.
    No touches our NHS and stays in office. Its political ****ing suicide.
    Totally serious and honest inquiry from me.

    Are the cuts to the system not necessary to reign in the fiscal budget?
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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