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Thread: Britain Plans to Decentralize Health Care

  1. #51
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    Re: Britain Plans to Decentralize Health Care

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    For the excessive money we spend on healthcare, no one should be with ten points of us in any category.
    Cost is effected by an increase demand with a slow to respond supply.
    You can thank your elected leaders for that.

    How about we build some more medical schools and lift the license cap on doctors before going to stupid extremes, like UHC.
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    Re: Britain Plans to Decentralize Health Care

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    For the excessive money we spend on healthcare, no one should be with ten points of us in any category.
    Maybe the numbers are so high because evolution is working hard despite peoples insistence on creating an environment where the crippled and dependent pets not only survive but thrive. Because God knows we need MORE of those Jerry Springer rejects...

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    Re: Britain Plans to Decentralize Health Care

    Quote Originally Posted by Rightwingnutjob
    I'm not real sure what exactly you were saying due to your strange sentence structure, but I'll take a stab anyway.
    I'm saying that just because a few abuse the system, is no reason to not try to help those that truly need help.

    Madoff and Stanford abused the system, but there was no call to shutter the investment business.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rightwingnutjob
    If a system is not perfect then fix the system.
    So you did understand my post. By all means, strive for perfection...but don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rightwingnutjob
    Whose standards should we use? Mine, most definitely.
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    Re: Britain Plans to Decentralize Health Care

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Pete, there are more factors to life expectancy than health care quality. The USA has the highest cancer survival rate in the world, while the UK has the lowest survival rate in Europe. Cancer survival rates more accurately depict a nations health care quality.

    Source:UK cancer survival rate lowest in Europe - Telegraph
    Cancer is often jumped on as an example of US superiority. Can you name any illness but cancer in which American outcomes are not worse?
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    Re: Britain Plans to Decentralize Health Care

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Maybe the numbers are so high because evolution is working hard despite peoples insistence on creating an environment where the crippled and dependent pets not only survive but thrive. Because God knows we need MORE of those Jerry Springer rejects...
    I doubt that as well (noting a bit of a joke). Our system is good for those who can afford it, or the very, very poor. Not much for everyone else. While I believe there is no perfect system, we can do better. And all countries should keep trying to do better. Nothing wrong with that.

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    Re: Britain Plans to Decentralize Health Care

    Quote Originally Posted by Rightwingnutjob
    How can you compare a free clinic to actual hospital and doctor's office conditions and expect it to show that U.S. health care is poor? In all of your pictures I didn't see any 'filth' or sanitation issues, just simple, temporary setups.
    Wasn't trying to compare office conditions or sanitation issues. Just that our system isn't the health care model that the rest of the world should try to emulate, like some try to allude to.

    I like some parts of our health care system. I dislike some parts of our healthcare system. I want it to be better, as an American I believe that we can always do it better. You want to accomplish it one way. I want to accomplish it another way.

    The large turnouts for temporary clinics show that a lot of people aren't getting even the basic health care that they need.
    “We just simply don’t know how to govern” - Rep. Steve Womack (R-AR) a member of the House Budget Committee

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    Re: Britain Plans to Decentralize Health Care

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I doubt that as well (noting a bit of a joke). Our system is good for those who can afford it, or the very, very poor. Not much for everyone else. While I believe there is no perfect system, we can do better. And all countries should keep trying to do better. Nothing wrong with that.
    Boo...I do more work with all those categories than you can imagien. Im not without compassion...believe it or not. At the end of the day I take people at their word when they say their desire for government health care is because they believe it will eb the 'right thing'. My experience with government health care is that it is SOOOOO not healthy. It is the lowest levels of treatment. Our social services dont help. Period. People survive in the system...they do not thrive. And with VERY RARE exceptions they DO NOT GET OFF of the system unless they simply drop off the map and have NO services. Add to the dismal delivery the fact that the government has PROVEN they are incapable of running their own house, forget about a trillion dollar a year system.

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    Re: Britain Plans to Decentralize Health Care

    I'm quite tired of this debate.
    Comparing the U.S. with other countries is a useless effort because we have so many statistical (and other) differences that it can skew the information out of whack.
    Not to mention all the laws preventing supply and demand from coming together here.

    Quite frankly, UHC is a silver bullet fallacy.
    It is not the be all, end all solution to cost inflation in the medical care industry.
    You have to sacrifice some quality of care in order to fund medical services for everyone.
    Last edited by Harry Guerrilla; 07-27-10 at 05:47 PM. Reason: spelling
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    Re: Britain Plans to Decentralize Health Care

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    For the excessive money we spend on healthcare, no one should be with ten points of us in any category.
    If you look at the men's survival rates, only 2 other countries are within 10 points of ours.
    Quote Originally Posted by Manc Skipper View Post
    Cancer is often jumped on as an example of US superiority. Can you name any illness but cancer in which American outcomes are not worse?
    I am a student of molecular biology, I have studied cancer and I'm about to take a course specifically in cancer biology. I have had 2 close family members survive cancer, and one of them survived due to very new and top line medical treatments. Cancer absolutely indicates the quality of a countries health care system, because it takes the newest research, machines, and therapies in order to reach a survival rate that high. It's also due to the quality of medical testing. The article I cited said one reason why the UK ranks so low is because of the waits in their healthcare system. People make an appointment and get to the doctor too late, and so the cancer is harder to treat. I searched for other statistics and I couldn't find anything beyond cancer. However, I did find this chart which depicts deaths related to heart disease. Heart disease deaths statistics - countries compared - NationMaster
    7 United Kingdom: 122 per 100,000 people
    13 United States: 106.5 per 100,000 people
    Honestly I was shocked by this considering America has a higher obesity rate (and epidemic) compared to the UK. I think it can be inferred from the data presented that one main reason why the US heart disease related deaths is lower could be due to our superior quality of care.
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    Re: Britain Plans to Decentralize Health Care

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    I am a student of molecular biology, I have studied cancer and I'm about to take a course specifically in cancer biology. I have had 2 close family members survive cancer, and one of them survived due to very new and top line medical treatments. Cancer absolutely indicates the quality of a countries health care system, because it takes the newest research, machines, and therapies in order to reach a survival rate that high. It's also due to the quality of medical testing. The article I cited said one reason why the UK ranks so low is because of the waits in their healthcare system. People make an appointment and get to the doctor too late, and so the cancer is harder to treat. I searched for other statistics and I couldn't find anything beyond cancer. However, I did find this chart which depicts deaths related to heart disease. Heart disease deaths statistics - countries compared - NationMaster
    7 United Kingdom: 122 per 100,000 people
    13 United States: 106.5 per 100,000 people
    Honestly I was shocked by this considering America has a higher obesity rate (and epidemic) compared to the UK. I think it can be inferred from the data presented that one main reason why the US heart disease related deaths is lower could be due to our superior quality of care.
    Specifically to what is in the bold.

    Those new cutting edge treatments are expensive.
    If we implement a cost effectiveness counsel, much like the U.K. does with NICE, you will start to see our survival rates fall or stagnate because the state won't want to pay out for those drugs.

    It shows a decline in quality for more access.
    Can't say it's worth it considering our true life expectancy isn't that much different from the rest of Europe and Canada.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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