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Thread: WikiLeaks Data Seem to Show Pakistan Helped Attack American Troops

  1. #101
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    Re: WikiLeaks Data Seem to Show Pakistan Helped Attack American Troops

    I think the world should know that Pakistan is providing support to the Taliban so we know what kind of ally Pakistan supposedly is. Covering it up is just trying to appease the country and not spoil relations. Should the part about the heat-seeking missiles have been disclosed, probably not. If they would have withheld that part, they could have claimed they weren't harming the troops and it would have helped their credibility.

    I actually think this will have little effect on the war anyways both policy and military-wise, and is probably more a media and political problem than anything else.

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    Re: WikiLeaks Data Seem to Show Pakistan Helped Attack American Troops

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    Like where British soldiers are positioned or if they are going to do a "surprise" attack on the Taliban the next day secret, sure.

    British soldiers allegedly killing children and civilians? No bloody way.

    Quote Originally Posted by TripleAgent
    If it is simply collateral damage, why do they keep it secret? It seems to me that if they would just release the information about civillian casualties and not be so secretive about it, the public would be able to swallow it easier.

    Look, I think you are both saying roughly the same thing here, so I will address it all at once.

    There are several reasons to keep collateral damage classified. First, obviously is troop morale. Then ofcourse, you don't want to tip the enemy off as to what it is that they can exploit against you. And lastly you don't want leaks within your own forces.

    These things are elementary, Both of your wanting of the public to know every little facet of the war and how it is carried out is not for you to either know, nor is for you to judge, unless you are advocating the release of this information to lead to a loss in that effort.

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    Re: WikiLeaks Data Seem to Show Pakistan Helped Attack American Troops

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Look, I think you are both saying roughly the same thing here, so I will address it all at once.

    There are several reasons to keep collateral damage classified. First, obviously is troop morale.
    i missed your point. or do you really believe the troops are unaware that they are causing collateral damage
    do you think the civilians are unaware they are the victims of collateral damage
    it would appear to be the American public which was actually being shielded from hearing the truth about collateral damage. so, how is that damaging to troop morale?
    Then ofcourse, you don't want to tip the enemy off as to what it is that they can exploit against you.
    and what was released that can be exploited by the enemy?
    And lastly you don't want leaks within your own forces.
    i think you are referring to the element of trust
    how trustworthy is it of the military to conceal its inappropriate activities from the American public?

    These things are elementary,
    elementary ... and off base
    Both of your wanting of the public to know every little facet of the war and how it is carried out is not for you to either know, ...
    no one appears to be seeking information about the routine and that which is normally expected during war ... those little facets
    nor is for you to judge, ...
    absolutely it is incumbent on American citizens to judge. the government/military works on behalf of the American public. we need to know when our government/military have gone off in the wrong direction; otherwise a course correction will not be found necessary to be made
    unless you are advocating the release of this information to lead to a loss in that effort.
    why would wanting to make sure our government/military is heading in the right direction, while applying national values in that undertaking, be found as something other than seeking a right course ... why do you see citizens' diligence as a percursor to a loss?

    j-mac
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    Re: WikiLeaks Data Seem to Show Pakistan Helped Attack American Troops

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    Do you think that if any of these documents did put US troops in danger, these people would have withheld them?
    Are you asking if WikiLeaks would have not published this if it put US lives in danger? I dunno. The fact that they have not hesitated to put people's lives at risk makes me think no.

    While I don't much like that WikiLeaks posted this stuff, I think once the documents where given to them, it was fair game. However, to post the stuff without redacting the names of people is just incredibly irresponsible, and should any of these people or their families be targeted(which is likely), WikiLeaks will share in the responsibility for their deaths.
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    Re: WikiLeaks Data Seem to Show Pakistan Helped Attack American Troops

    I honestly don't think the public has a "right to know" everything at every moment its going on. I will use this as an example... when 9/11 happened, news reports told us and everyone else who could pick up the stories exactly where the President was, where the Vice-president was located, and where most of his staff was. Planes were still in the air and unaccounted for at the time. That information in the wrong hands could have potentially killed the President and his staff. Luckily, it didn't happen. But you never know.

    In the case of these leaks....It is flat out stupid and dangerous to give the enemy information on how you are running a war. Names of people, American or not, that doesn't matter. Now I don't think these leaks are going to be truly damaging to us in the war, but you don't know.

    All I know is this... If you are playing a football game, you certainly don't give the opposing team your dang playbook if you expect to win! Everyone behind these leaks should be ashamed of themselves and should most definitely be called to the mat for it.

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    Re: WikiLeaks Data Seem to Show Pakistan Helped Attack American Troops

    Quote Originally Posted by BamaBrat View Post
    I honestly don't think the public has a "right to know" everything at every moment its going on. I will use this as an example... when 9/11 happened, news reports told us and everyone else who could pick up the stories exactly where the President was, where the Vice-president was located, and where most of his staff was. Planes were still in the air and unaccounted for at the time. That information in the wrong hands could have potentially killed the President and his staff. Luckily, it didn't happen. But you never know.

    In the case of these leaks....It is flat out stupid and dangerous to give the enemy information on how you are running a war. Names of people, American or not, that doesn't matter. Now I don't think these leaks are going to be truly damaging to us in the war, but you don't know.

    All I know is this... If you are playing a football game, you certainly don't give the opposing team your dang playbook if you expect to win! Everyone behind these leaks should be ashamed of themselves and should most definitely be called to the mat for it.
    let's pursue your football game comparison
    i can see no instance in which the playbook was revealed to the other side
    what i observe instead is the commentator at half time identifying the failures of one of the teams
    now please explain how that helped the other team
    or alternatively, explain what about this incident compares to a playbook, outlining future game options
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Re: WikiLeaks Data Seem to Show Pakistan Helped Attack American Troops

    Point taken. I'm just saying... releasing the names was irresponsible. Actually most of what was leaked wasn't new information. It was mostly all already out there. This very well may do no damage whatsoever to anyone in this war. I still think it was irresponsible and wrong.

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    Re: WikiLeaks Data Seem to Show Pakistan Helped Attack American Troops

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    The people responsible for Wikileaks need to be arrested, and their website shut down permanently.
    Tut tut, are we no longer in favor of Free Speech?

    Strange how our attitudes change when those we support or encourage are revealed to be not quite as pristine as we would like them to be viewed as?

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    Re: WikiLeaks Data Seem to Show Pakistan Helped Attack American Troops

    Quote Originally Posted by TripleAgent View Post
    If it is simply collateral damage, why do they keep it secret? It seems to me that if they would just release the information about civillian casualties and not be so secretive about it, the public would be able to swallow it easier.
    They don't want to release the statistics on collateral damage because the enemy will use it as propaganda for recrutment. At the same time they blow up girls schools and kill civilians with car bombs and we don't here the outrage. Whats up with that?
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    Re: WikiLeaks Data Seem to Show Pakistan Helped Attack American Troops

    Quote Originally Posted by SgtRock View Post
    They don't want to release the statistics on collateral damage because the enemy will use it as propaganda for recrutment. At the same time they blow up girls schools and kill civilians with car bombs and we don't here the outrage. Whats up with that?
    They'd use it for recruitment? Do you think the average male Afghan hillbilly needs much to join the insurgency other than being told that the land he lives on is being invaded? You're acting like these people would need PDFs and Power Point presentations to strap on a bomb.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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