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Thread: Obama's message to voters: Things could be worse

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    Re: Obama's message to voters: Things could be worse

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    While this may seem an apologist stance.

    One must admit, in the realm of possibility, is the notion that things could well indeed be worse, and I'd say that throughout history leaders very rarely get credit for avoiding crises considering we'll never know just how bad things could have gotten.

    If Obama hadn't of ordered the stimulus, and not spent any money at all on the problem. And unemployment was at 25% at their lowest estimates. I doubt conservatives would be sitting here saying "Bravo Mr. Obama for not doing any thing". No you'd be bitching about how h e didn't spend money. These are desperate times, I've heard rumblings that a secondary stimulus may be needed to avoid a secondary reseccion which this time, could be more severe. And no magically elected republicans, presidential or congressional are gonna be able to fix it with "tax cuts".

    I think people really underestimate just how severe and fragile our situation is. It will take a long time to see what Obamas impact is. Do not be so hasty to judge. The country didn't collapse as some of you predicted it would the day he got elected. And all these months later, she's still afloat... Is she not?
    I have to admit, I hold our government to a higher standard than keeping the country afloat. The American people were promised unemployment wouldn't reach 10% if the Stimulus Bill passed. It is actually close to 20%. One of the problems I have with Obama is that he hasn't offered any real solutions to getting the economy back on track. How many trillions of dollars must we spend before we realize this is not working and never has?

    Also, Obama could have done a much better job in foreign policy. Guantanomo, Patriot Act, Iraq and Iran... Seems like Bush never left.
    Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

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    Re: Obama's message to voters: Things could be worse

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    That's all that dumbass has to say?!?
    I suppose change was in actuality maintaining the status quo. Not much of a shocker.
    Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

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    Re: Obama's message to voters: Things could be worse

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Part of this is the uncertainty of what the regulations are going to do to normal operations and what unknown costs are coming from this. It's hard to put faith in markets and other investments when the odds can't be accurately known.
    Very true, but that seems to be more of a failure of your political system, allowing for so much abuse by congress from both sides. 10 Million page laws? WTF Is that ROFL

    100% true, and something I said during the Bush admn. as well as the Obama one with the TARP programs. I have always thought them to be bad ideas.
    I think one thing we'll never ever know, is what might have happened if those banks had collapsed completely. TARP may have been unpopular. But fortunately or unfortunately we'll never know just how bad things could have gotten if it hadn't of been implemented. It could have led to a global economic paralysis of unimaginative proportions of which the world has never seen. or not... that's the beauty of the what ifs


    I am not a fan of raising taxes simply because they seem to lead to ever increasing abuse, I do agree that spending must be controlled and that temporary(and I want that specifically in writing from our reps) tax increases could be a short term solution, those taxes would have to be focused on debt reduction and solvency and have a sunset provision though.
    The issue is true accountability on the part of your politicians. You gotta get rid of this two party system, they both abuse the system, they're both corrupt, only difference is in certain regards such as campaign donations and lobbyists, you simply institutionalized corruption

  4. #44
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    Re: Obama's message to voters: Things could be worse

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    I don't think he promised. He asserted.
    It actually wasn't Obama. In a paper written by Christina Romer and Jared Bernstein - the paper claimed the following:

    First, the likely scale of employment loss is extremely large. The U.S. economy has already lost
    nearly 2.6 million jobs since the business cycle peak in December 2007. In the absence of stimulus,
    the economy could lose another 3 to 4 million more. Thus, we are working to counter a potential
    total job loss of at least 5 million. As Figure 1 shows, even with the large prototypical package, the
    unemployment rate in 2010Q4 is predicted to be approximately 7.0%, which is well below the
    approximately 8.8% that would result in the absence of a plan.1
    SOURCE

    Obama made many claims that such stimulus was required, that we cannot affort to NOT spend, and how many times did we hear him say we cannot go backwards - which is what got us into this "mess" in the first place. We now know however, that that bucking common sense and convention as they did --- came up vastly short. Obama bought into the notion that the stimulus would keep down unemployment as the paper stated --- Obama, Romer and Bernstein were wrong. The nitpick facts are Obama never promised anything nor asserted anything. He implied by his campaign, speeches and policy - that the paper was true and would happen... he was wrong.
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Obama's message to voters: Things could be worse

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Imagine if Kerry had won, and then Obama. OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We'd probably be at a $100 trillion debt.
    ... most of our existing debt has been accrued under Republican administrations and policies, a reality I doubt conservatives will ever successfully remedy or address.
    If you notice something good in yourself, give credit to God, not to yourself, but be certain the evil you commit is always your own and yours to acknowledge.

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    Re: Obama's message to voters: Things could be worse

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    The numbers were on the way down under former President Reagan, the numbers are trending UP now as a percentage. Just saying, "well Reagan had more....." doesn't cut it. Since everyone wants to blame Bush for the unemployment numbers that started under a congressional/white house Democrat majority why don't you guys be honest and mention what the WH/Congress majority was before Reagan when those unemployment numbers got there..........
    Reagan's unemployment numbers didn't skyrocket until he was in office for about 2 years. Plenty of time for those numbers to have reflected his policies.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Obama's message to voters: Things could be worse

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    Very true, but that seems to be more of a failure of your political system, allowing for so much abuse by congress from both sides. 10 Million page laws? WTF Is that ROFL
    Oh, I know it.



    I think one thing we'll never ever know, is what might have happened if those banks had collapsed completely. TARP may have been unpopular. But fortunately or unfortunately we'll never know just how bad things could have gotten if it hadn't of been implemented. It could have led to a global economic paralysis of unimaginative proportions of which the world has never seen. or not... that's the beauty of the what ifs
    I think that instead of failure what would have happened would have been a situation of deconsolidation. The assets from the failing companies in the umbrella could have been absorbed by more stable companies, and the stronger subsidiaries would not have money lost by the failing counterparts. In essence the weak companies would cease to be a problem while the entities would come out leaner and stronger. Backing failure was a bad idea. It all came down to lack of discipline though and you are correct in that.



    The issue is true accountability on the part of your politicians. You gotta get rid of this two party system, they both abuse the system, they're both corrupt, only difference is in certain regards such as campaign donations and lobbyists, you simply institutionalized corruption
    I think that is coming, but a third party probably won't be viable for probably another 10-20 years unfortunately. But in essence we the people definitely need to demand accountability from our employees.....er, politicians if you will.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: Obama's message to voters: Things could be worse

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    ... most of our existing debt has been accrued under Republican administrations and policies, a reality I doubt conservatives will ever successfully remedy or address.
    The Republicans spent a trillion bucks on turtle tunnels and deer under passes?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  9. #49
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    Re: Obama's message to voters: Things could be worse

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    I really don't see how crippling an economy is preventing things from getting worse. I was watching the market daily during the bailouts and every single time one of those windbags spoke of messing with the economy the bottom fell out from the market. As well, everyone knew these damn TARP programs were going to come with strings such as new and untenable regs., deficits, taxes, waste, and abuse......the market reacted in kind. Need more proof, Saturn and Pontiac no longer exist after the auto bailout, but the unions still have all of their perks. Chrysler is still kind of ****ed........GM's CEO was basically fired by the dumbkopf in the white house....... it's pretty much provable that things could have actually gotten better rather than worse if those egotistical dumb ****s in congress and the white house had stopped trying to micromanage everything.

    Just ask those that grew up during the last one, some are still alive. In fact, there is theory stating that if the government had done nothing then that a depression could have been avoided in those days as well.
    Actually, I've been saying for well over a year now that by doing nothing, we would have been in much better shape. Why you ask? Well, put simply, what I'm about to tell you is something you won't hear on the MSM, or from a politician, because either they don't realize it, or they're too damn stupid. By NOT allowing the banks, AIG, Lehman, GM, etc to fail, and by instituting the bailouts, and then the stimulus, what government actually did economically was spread that failed risk-venture to the common people. Ya see, all that would have suffered from those failures were those that had a direct hand it their investment. Others, you know, me and you, took no risk, hence we would have been spared. In fact, my kids, and their kids, and their kids would have been spared to burden of paying it all back.

    The pieces would have been swallowed up by the market, yes that's right, the free market, and if not swallowed, new emerging markets would have been created. The net loss would have been minimal over time, but appear large at first. This is was the smoke and mirrors people talk about when they said it needed to be done NOW. It didn't, and every economist that said it did, I DARE them to call me a liar.

    The truth folks is that, the American tax payer, voter, citizen was duped, either knowingly, or unknowingly, but either way, the powers that be made the wrong call.

    In sum, the failure of the banks, GM, Lehman, AIG, fannie and freddie, etc... was a direct result of mismanagement, collusion, deceit, and criminal activity. The holders of that risk would have paid a huge price, and yes that means Ma, and Pa, who aren't sophisticated enough to know better, but I say so what. It's not my problem, and in a free market, where risk disclosure is made mandatory, I say, tough, next time buyer beware. We The People are now paying for their troubles, when we shouldn't be.

    That's just how smart those lawyers we all elected think they really are!

    How do you feel now? Kinda dirty, like you were conned eh? Good, do something about it come November!


    Tim-
    “When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators.” - P. J. O’Rourke
    “Socialism is great until you run out of someone elses money” Margaret Thatcher

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    Re: Obama's message to voters: Things could be worse

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Oh, I know it.



    I think that instead of failure what would have happened would have been a situation of deconsolidation. The assets from the failing companies in the umbrella could have been absorbed by more stable companies, and the stronger subsidiaries would not have money lost by the failing counterparts. In essence the weak companies would cease to be a problem while the entities would come out leaner and stronger. Backing failure was a bad idea. It all came down to lack of discipline though and you are correct in that.



    I think that is coming, but a third party probably won't be viable for probably another 10-20 years unfortunately. But in essence we the people definitely need to demand accountability from our employees.....er, politicians if you will.
    Sorry, didn't read the whole thread. You seem to get it, LMR, thanks!


    Tim-
    “When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators.” - P. J. O’Rourke
    “Socialism is great until you run out of someone elses money” Margaret Thatcher

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