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Thread: Prospect of life in deep space as Nasa probe finds hundreds of new planets

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    Re: Prospect of life in deep space as Nasa probe finds hundreds of new planets

    Quote Originally Posted by Gray_Fox_86 View Post
    Some 75% of the planet is inhabited by humans?! That cannot be right. Humans take up small places if you did research on how the land in the states is used. You'd understand that-the numbers are something like this-humans are not that all significant, for example 35% of the US is forests another 35% is farms, 28% is commercial, industry, roads, etc and where humans live is 2%. And we are a nation that is spread all over the place and by that I mean we have homes and stuff bigger than what most nations live in. Most of the world live in squaler and are dependent on food aid, some like 25% of nations need to import their food.
    No, I said we've changed the appearance of 75% of the non-ice-covered land on the planet, not that we live there. Just looking at your figures fot the US, that's about right - you've got 65% there which has definitely been human-altered, plus an unknown amount of forest.

    WE CAN use science to replace farms, that would free up at least 30-42% of the land right there and would add more forests for your precious animals. However, extinctions are not because humans are encroaching on the land of animals-animals can live anywhere-its that humans go into forests, jungles, etc looking for animals to kill for the amount of money their furs, scent are worth in the black market. The truth is that if we helped developed more nations by economic means so those people do not have to resort to a life of crime. We can see some real change. But regardless if every nation developed to a first world nation there still would be much crime because we are humans. And we cannot shun the natural instincts in us no matter how hard we try.

    But we are different from other mammals. That is why we can use science to better the world for all of us to live in.
    Habitat destruction - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    It's not just that we go out hunting - although you're quite right, that helps too. It's that some animals can't live 'anywhere'.

    I'm not talking about whether what we've done is ethical or not - for now, at least - all I'm saying is that it's fairly undeniable that we've done it in the first place.
    The truth may be out there, but lies are in your head. ~Terry Pratchett

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    Re: Prospect of life in deep space as Nasa probe finds hundreds of new planets

    Quote Originally Posted by iangb View Post
    The mass extinctions happened a long time ago - don't think I'm talking about modern times.

    As for the other two - I'll see you in the appropriate forum. Suffice to say that, speaking of trained scientists, the vast majority of those very same think that AGW is a solid theory.
    I've long since learned my lesson in getting into pissing contests with other scientists over global warming. There is no verifiable data that even correlates to man-made global warming. I've seen it all. If you have something new, sure invite me over then, but if it's media this, and media that - link after link, I'll differ in lew of better ways to waste my time. Show me non partisan science, based on legitimate models, with interpretable data, and you'll have an interested party, otherwise, no thanks!


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    Re: Prospect of life in deep space as Nasa probe finds hundreds of new planets

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    I've long since learned my lesson in getting into pissing contests with other scientists over global warming. There is no verifiable data that even correlates to man-made global warming. I've seen it all. If you have something new, sure invite me over then, but if it's media this, and media that - link after link, I'll differ in lew of better ways to waste my time. Show me non partisan science, based on legitimate models, with interpretable data, and you'll have an interested party, otherwise, no thanks!


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    I would suggest looking here. It's a good starting place, at least.
    The truth may be out there, but lies are in your head. ~Terry Pratchett

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    Re: Prospect of life in deep space as Nasa probe finds hundreds of new planets

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    You live in America so I can understand why you would hold this belief.
    Wow! You are showing something natural of a human, hatred for something different than you. What exactly is wrong with America? Are we more realists than the rest of the world?


    No one said anything about eradicating those baser instincts. I said learn to control them.
    We can not control them. There will always be bursts of rage, hatred, and other deviant behavior. It is something natural.



    The world's biggest mass extinction since the age of the dinosaurs is underway, and it's our fault. Human illness is increasing. We are destroying our own source of life. This is irrefutable from a scientific standpoint.
    I do not know whether to laugh or cry. Humans have been predicting their own end since we have been on this planet. Nothing apocalypto is going to happen. Take it easy.




    I don't mean to imply that we are not making progress at all, just that our progress is, I think, a bit overstated sometimes. We think that technology means we have improved significantly, but in a lot of ways humans are behaving exactly the same as they did 500-1000 years ago. The scenery has changed, not much else. We do have a chance to do it right this time though, I hope our leaders step up to the plate instead of giving in to those baser instincts.
    I do not believe you understand how indoctrination works. But it is ok.








    I don't hate humanity. I hope for the best, but I'm a realist. We aren't doing well right now. I am a firm believer that we live in degenerate times. Most of the things that humans could do in order to live a peaceful, undisturbed existence with steady, stable progress, we are not doing. In fact, we are usually doing the exact opposite.
    You are not a realist. You are making predictable statements, do not get me wrong. I know you are a smart kid. We are a degenerate species and we have never acted in a good manner. If anything what you are living through now has been one of the best if not the best time for a human to live as of our whole existence. We are making progress and we will not stop. However, progress is not in the way people behave but in what advances a small group of individuals make for the rest of the species. A politician does not change the world for the greater good, a scientist does. A politician is most likely to destroy the planet and that is something bad.

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    Re: Prospect of life in deep space as Nasa probe finds hundreds of new planets

    Quote Originally Posted by iangb View Post

    Habitat destruction - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    It's not just that we go out hunting - although you're quite right, that helps too. It's that some animals can't live 'anywhere'.

    I'm not talking about whether what we've done is ethical or not - for now, at least - all I'm saying is that it's fairly undeniable that we've done it in the first place.
    The problem with what you provided in the link is that it is saying family planning for areas that are growing rapidly. What is left out is that some of those areas that grow rapidly are because of the emigres from other areas. So while one area grows rapidly another four or five or more areas shrink because of that fast growing area and the ones who stay behind are the old. It is not like everyone who moves there is going to be having 20 kids. If anything urban areas are a Godsend to humanity. Why? Because urban areas encourage smaller things but a material lifestyle. As a result people who move to cities are not likely to have many children which means that the population won't grow as fast.

    Quit painting a doomsday picture. Life is hard and it has never been easy and there has always been bad things happening not only to "nature" but to us as well. In the end the planet will decide what to do with us. Regardless if we change and become a 100% recycled society in all nations the planet might just choose to enter into an ice age period or something that will erode hundreds of thousands if not millions of people faster than a blink of the eye.

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    Re: Prospect of life in deep space as Nasa probe finds hundreds of new planets

    Quote Originally Posted by iangb View Post
    I would suggest looking here. It's a good starting place, at least.
    Ah, I see.. Why only three posts to that thread? It was made ten days ago? Maybe everyone on DP is incapable of understanding the science, eh? I particularly liked your summary. Too bad Deuce is wrong, and not just by a little..

    I'll post to that thread as my time permits. I have no use for none sense like that ordinarily, but I "might" take some time to at least correct the record. I'll give you a hint though to chew on. think "heat absorption by C02".. LOL, and I found it funny that Duece actually said "physiscs 101"..


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    “Socialism is great until you run out of someone elses money” Margaret Thatcher

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    Re: Prospect of life in deep space as Nasa probe finds hundreds of new planets

    Quote Originally Posted by Gray_Fox_86 View Post
    The problem with what you provided in the link is that it is saying family planning for areas that are growing rapidly. What is left out is that some of those areas that grow rapidly are because of the emigres from other areas. So while one area grows rapidly another four or five or more areas shrink because of that fast growing area and the ones who stay behind are the old. It is not like everyone who moves there is going to be having 20 kids. If anything urban areas are a Godsend to humanity. Why? Because urban areas encourage smaller things but a material lifestyle. As a result people who move to cities are not likely to have many children which means that the population won't grow as fast.

    Quit painting a doomsday picture. Life is hard and it has never been easy and there has always been bad things happening not only to "nature" but to us as well. In the end the planet will decide what to do with us. Regardless if we change and become a 100% recycled society in all nations the planet might just choose to enter into an ice age period or something that will erode hundreds of thousands if not millions of people faster than a blink of the eye.
    I said: "I'm not talking about whether what we've done is ethical or not - for now, at least - all I'm saying is that it's fairly undeniable that we've done it in the first place."

    I'm not painting 'doom and gloom'. I'm just saying what we've done. If you feel guilty about it enough to defend it, that's entirely your own doing - you might want to consider why that is.

    As for the planet 'deciding' what to do with us - although I disagree with the personification, I agree that the climate may, one day, change becasue of something other than us. However, at the moment, it's our fault - and personally, if we're facing an ice age (not that I'm saying this might happen soon....), I'd consider the more time to prepare the better.

    Ah, I see.. Why only three posts to that thread? It was made ten days ago? Maybe everyone on DP is incapable of understanding the science, eh? I particularly liked your summary. Too bad Deuce is wrong, and not just by a little..

    I'll post to that thread as my time permits. I have no use for none sense like that ordinarily, but I "might" take some time to at least correct the record. I'll give you a hint though to chew on. think "heat absorption by C02".. LOL, and I found it funny that Duece actually said "physiscs 101"..
    I'll wait for your reply in that thread then. Don't want to go offtopic on this one or anything!*

    *Yes, that was deliberately ironic
    Last edited by iangb; 07-25-10 at 11:20 PM.
    The truth may be out there, but lies are in your head. ~Terry Pratchett

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    Re: Prospect of life in deep space as Nasa probe finds hundreds of new planets

    I'll wait for your reply in that thread then. Don't want to go offtopic on this one or anything!*

    Agreed..


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    Re: Prospect of life in deep space as Nasa probe finds hundreds of new planets

    Quote Originally Posted by Gray_Fox_86 View Post
    Wow! You are showing something natural of a human, hatred for something different than you. What exactly is wrong with America? Are we more realists than the rest of the world?
    What? How is that showing hatred?

    There are places in the world where people are living the ways that Goshin claim is not possible, but he lives in America so he cannot see those realities. It's not hateful to point out the obvious.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gray_Fox_86 View Post
    We can not control them. There will always be bursts of rage, hatred, and other deviant behavior. It is something natural.
    It's not that we cannot, it's that we don't want to. It's much easier to give in to those baser instincts than examine them for what they are: our animal natures. Clearly we have some level of control, as we are still sitting here typing to one another and our countries haven't blown each other up. Why is it such a stretch of the imagination to picture us working together for the betterment of all?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gray_Fox_86 View Post
    I do not know whether to laugh or cry. Humans have been predicting their own end since we have been on this planet. Nothing apocalypto is going to happen. Take it easy.
    This kind of hubris is exactly why a good conversation of the kinds of things I'm talking about is not possible. Too many people think they know everything, so their minds are not open. They think they're in control but they're not. This is the plague of the human race. It is very easy to dismiss that which makes us uncomfortable, or that which presents a reality that we would sooner be in denial about.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gray_Fox_86 View Post
    I do not believe you understand how indoctrination works. But it is ok.
    It is the sign of a poor debater when they turn the debate into a discussion about the opponent, instead of the ideas they present. Indoctrination implies that I was coerced with propaganda to hold the views that I do. Nothing is further from the truth, and since you don't know me, I suggest you avoid such audacious assumptions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gray_Fox_86 View Post
    You are not a realist. You are making predictable statements, do not get me wrong.
    My statements are predictable to you because you have probably heard such notions coming from the mouths of truly hysterical people who truly are indoctrinated, and you are assuming I am just like them. This isn't your fault. It is the mind trap of categorical thinking to draw comparisons between two unrelated things based on superficial observations.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gray_Fox_86 View Post
    I know you are a smart kid.
    I'm not a kid.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gray_Fox_86 View Post
    We are a degenerate species and we have never acted in a good manner.
    I don't agree. Humans have done many good things and I have been alive to see some of them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gray_Fox_86 View Post
    If anything what you are living through now has been one of the best if not the best time for a human to live as of our whole existence.
    I agree that I am benefiting from living standards that I would not have seen if I was even born 100 years ago, but the benefits are just a facade. Unlike most people, I have traveled the world and seen the real costs of what it means to live the way we do. We are 5% of the world in this living standard, and we consume all the resources to do it. In the western world we have enjoyed luxuries and lassitude lifestyles that would be the envy of even the richest rulers of empires 500 years ago. But what is the net progress that has been made here? If the fossil fuels ever stop running, none of it will mean anything. Our society will collapse in weeks. It is all propped up on hot air, however magnificent it may seem. It is this delusion that is pervasive in our culture, that we are somehow the apex. Things are always changing. We are changing. Nothing is static. Everything we do has an impact. It is preposterous to suggest that our actions have no consequences, whether they be good or bad.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gray_Fox_86 View Post
    We are making progress and we will not stop.
    I agree, but that will not look anything like the current paradigm. The industrial era has been but a millesecond of human history, and it has held the greatest costs to us as a species. We cannot sustain it without major advancements and overhauls. We need to change the very way we think, and that is not something that ever happens overnight. I think at this point, progress would be returning to local, sustainable economy, but with the knowledge of nature, technology, and medicine that we have achieved through the destructive eras that preceded.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gray_Fox_86 View Post
    However, progress is not in the way people behave but in what advances a small group of individuals make for the rest of the species.
    I disagree. Advances are meaningless if people behave the same, otherwise we are not using those advances to further understand our own nature or place in the universe. Advances without spiritual questions pertaining to the material essence of what and who we are as a people are completely meaningless and only bring momentary gratification. We live in an era of momentary impulse. Our landfills attest to that. Stuff bought and stuff tossed for new stuff. We are practically swimming in disease because of our own polluted filth, and the root of that problem has never, ever been a lack of technology to solve it. The problems are intrinsically within us... the nature of our desires, our refusal to look inward, and our incessant child-like need to look to the outside world as a means to rearrange our internal issues. Our entire era... this entire paradigm of thinking... is rooted in THAT, and nothing else.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gray_Fox_86 View Post
    A politician does not change the world for the greater good, a scientist does. A politician is most likely to destroy the planet and that is something bad.
    I don't think it's so cut and dry. Scientists make discoveries, even deadly ones, while absolving themselves of responsibility for how the discoveries are used, since they are only "seeking knowledge". Politicians of this era are increasingly corrupt because we live in degenerate times; but even though our historical focus has apparently been human violence as a legacy, there are plenty of civilizations in the past that had tempered, wise leaders who knew how to hold balance. They were destroyed by other societies who lacked this knowledge of sacred balance, but that doesn't mean they were failures. On the contrary, it proves that humans are capable of overcoming their animal half.

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    Re: Prospect of life in deep space as Nasa probe finds hundreds of new planets

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    What? How is that showing hatred?

    There are places in the world where people are living the ways that Goshin claim is not possible, but he lives in America so he cannot see those realities. It's not hateful to point out the obvious.



    It's not that we cannot, it's that we don't want to. It's much easier to give in to those baser instincts than examine them for what they are: our animal natures. Clearly we have some level of control, as we are still sitting here typing to one another and our countries haven't blown each other up. Why is it such a stretch of the imagination to picture us working together for the betterment of all?



    This kind of hubris is exactly why a good conversation of the kinds of things I'm talking about is not possible. Too many people think they know everything, so their minds are not open. They think they're in control but they're not. This is the plague of the human race. It is very easy to dismiss that which makes us uncomfortable, or that which presents a reality that we would sooner be in denial about.



    It is the sign of a poor debater when they turn the debate into a discussion about the opponent, instead of the ideas they present. Indoctrination implies that I was coerced with propaganda to hold the views that I do. Nothing is further from the truth, and since you don't know me, I suggest you avoid such audacious assumptions.



    My statements are predictable to you because you have probably heard such notions coming from the mouths of truly hysterical people who truly are indoctrinated, and you are assuming I am just like them. This isn't your fault. It is the mind trap of categorical thinking to draw comparisons between two unrelated things based on superficial observations.



    I'm not a kid.



    I don't agree. Humans have done many good things and I have been alive to see some of them.



    I agree that I am benefiting from living standards that I would not have seen if I was even born 100 years ago, but the benefits are just a facade. Unlike most people, I have traveled the world and seen the real costs of what it means to live the way we do. We are 5% of the world in this living standard, and we consume all the resources to do it. In the western world we have enjoyed luxuries and lassitude lifestyles that would be the envy of even the richest rulers of empires 500 years ago. But what is the net progress that has been made here? If the fossil fuels ever stop running, none of it will mean anything. Our society will collapse in weeks. It is all propped up on hot air, however magnificent it may seem. It is this delusion that is pervasive in our culture, that we are somehow the apex. Things are always changing. We are changing. Nothing is static. Everything we do has an impact. It is preposterous to suggest that our actions have no consequences, whether they be good or bad.



    I agree, but that will not look anything like the current paradigm. The industrial era has been but a millesecond of human history, and it has held the greatest costs to us as a species. We cannot sustain it without major advancements and overhauls. We need to change the very way we think, and that is not something that ever happens overnight. I think at this point, progress would be returning to local, sustainable economy, but with the knowledge of nature, technology, and medicine that we have achieved through the destructive eras that preceded.



    I disagree. Advances are meaningless if people behave the same, otherwise we are not using those advances to further understand our own nature or place in the universe. Advances without spiritual questions pertaining to the material essence of what and who we are as a people are completely meaningless and only bring momentary gratification. We live in an era of momentary impulse. Our landfills attest to that. Stuff bought and stuff tossed for new stuff. We are practically swimming in disease because of our own polluted filth, and the root of that problem has never, ever been a lack of technology to solve it. The problems are intrinsically within us... the nature of our desires, our refusal to look inward, and our incessant child-like need to look to the outside world as a means to rearrange our internal issues. Our entire era... this entire paradigm of thinking... is rooted in THAT, and nothing else.



    I don't think it's so cut and dry. Scientists make discoveries, even deadly ones, while absolving themselves of responsibility for how the discoveries are used, since they are only "seeking knowledge". Politicians of this era are increasingly corrupt because we live in degenerate times; but even though our historical focus has apparently been human violence as a legacy, there are plenty of civilizations in the past that had tempered, wise leaders who knew how to hold balance. They were destroyed by other societies who lacked this knowledge of sacred balance, but that doesn't mean they were failures. On the contrary, it proves that humans are capable of overcoming their animal half.
    Actually, Rome was destroyed from within, long before the barbarians sacked her.
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