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Thread: UN names flotilla inquiry panel

  1. #21
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    Re: UN names flotilla inquiry panel

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Just because a country is a democracy does not mean that it can not hide the truth for its own benefit. Unlike you, I have no blind faith in the state. Time and time again, we see democratic states hide evidence to show the world a certain point of view to justify everything from internal policy to external. Remember the Vietnam war and how it started? all based on a lie and because the US government hid the evidence. And like it or not, it is not the first time that the IDF has moulded evidence to fit the view point they have on a situation.



    And the evidence released by Beierbart showed that Shirley Sherrod was a racist... ups!. Evidence released by Fox News showed Kerry and Fonda in the same picture at an anti-Vietnam war march... ups.. that was fake.



    And I repeat my statement I want all the evidence so we can create a credible time line to show WHEN the violence started and by who. All you have is edited footage showing people either defending themselves or attacking IDF troops.. it is a fine line, and not having all the information means only the most biased hacks can make a conclusions on what happened. All we can be confident on is that the IDF murdered 9 people.
    And socialist states never do anything wrong, right? Right!!! Your hackery is legend and schizophrenic on this website.
    Last edited by American; 07-26-10 at 07:29 AM.
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  2. #22
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    Re: UN names flotilla inquiry panel

    I am glad this inquiry has been organised and by people of the highest standing.

    Very little is really known about what happened except for the Israeli version and as they were one of the parties involved and indeed the people who carried out the killings, it is always better to hear from an independent source.

    Israel managed to get all but one film of what happened and that film did not show the part Israel showed but rather Israeli's on boats firing into the ship. Obviously because Israel has taken all the rest of the footage it is difficult for an independent inquiry to get to the truth, unless of course she provides all, and how would we know she had provided all. Everyone knows that you can take a piece of material and use that to suggest something when if the full material is there a very different conclusion would be made.

    This inquiry will look into the legality of the situation, speak to people involved and hopefully at other issues where I have doubts. If indeed the people on the boat had been told as other boats have reported that they were going to be met with lethal force, then it can be understood that some people would choose to fight.

    There is much we do not know and much we will probably never know.

    However if this inquiry comes up with the same conclusions as the Israeli inquiry then that will put the matter to rest.
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  3. #23
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    Re: UN names flotilla inquiry panel

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    No, but the country is not managing the inquiry, it's an independent inquiry.
    The reason why you see it in a bad eye is because the independent inquiry is managed by Israelis, that is the truth.
    LOL now you call me an anti-semite.. I should report you but some how I expect nothing to come of that.

    An inquiry set up by the Israeli government will never be independent enough for god sake. Have you ever heard of conflict of interest? I know it is an alien thing for most American's but you live on this side of the pond so you should at least have heard of the concept. The other side will never ever accept the findings, just like Israel would never ever accept any independent inquiry set up by Hamas. That is why we need an international inquiry where non of the sides involved in the dispute are sitting on the judging panel.

    The IDF has taken cameras and photos because they might include pictures of the soldiers, pictures that the activists could spread on the media, and some of them did.
    Those soldiers are commandos and their identity must be kept a secret.
    LOL what a lame excuse. Great way to protect the guilty.. sorry we can reveal who it is, but yes he did shoot the Turk 5 times in the head..

    All of the evidence captured on the ship would be brought however and presented in front of the Turkel inquiry.
    Wanna bet? For one, how do we know that the evidence present is all the evidence available? After all the IDF has been sitting on it for months now.

    Besides that, the video of one hour+- released by one of the activists indicates the same thing that the footage videos showing the activists beating the soldiers do.
    And so what?

    Listen we are not debating about if the activists attacked the IDF troops, that is beyond doubt in my opinion. Just as it is beyond doubt that the IDF troopers should never have been there and they reacted very unprofessionally.

    What I, and many others are very interested in, is the differences in what that activists are saying and what the IDF is saying. For example there are reports that people were shot dead even before the IDF troops hit the deck of the ship. If people were already shot before the IDF troops hit the deck, then that could very well explain why the IDF troops were attacked.. people were defending themselves against a hostile force that already had killed a few. Without all evidence gathered from all sides and a credible time-line, then we will never know and this dispute will go down in a long line unresolved disputes that will rot away any form of possible peace in the region. It has already all but destroyed the relationship between Turkey and Israel for one.

    You personally won't get the evidence, you have no right to such evidence and you won't see it, the Turkel inquiry will see the evidence and will decide from it on what really happened.
    Never asked for it personally. I want the world to have the evidence and via a fully independent investigation. And yes that means, no Palestinians, no Turks and no Israelis on the investigation panel. Hell if we could get it run by Buddhist's only then that would be preferable.

    BS, it shows activists attacking soldiers and the soldiers not replying with live ammunition, it shows that the soldiers have acted with restraint and it backs their claim that they've only used live ammunition once that was directed towards them.
    It shows one view. Just as the edited footage of the Department of Agriculture woman showed her as a racist, where as the full version did not show anything remotely that way. The IDF have already admitted that the footage they released is edited. Footage taken by the activists could help a lot, but only selected bits have been released by the IDF... of course confirming their view.

    I see you label yourself as "the most biased hack", since you're saying that only they can make a conclusion, and here you are making a conclusion that those 9 were murdered by the IDF.
    So they killed themselves? And when you take some ones life then it is murder/homicide. Now that murder can be justified as in self defence or in war, but it is still murder/homicide. Even if you kill someone by accident, it is still classified as murder/homicide.

    I think there's enough evidence to back the claim that the activists have incited the violence, and I have a lot to base that on unlike your own baseless conclusions.
    You have a lot to base it on.. what exactly? The IDF press releases and what you see on an edited grainy video .. released by the IDF? Seriously..
    Last edited by PeteEU; 07-26-10 at 11:37 AM.
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  4. #24
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    Re: UN names flotilla inquiry panel

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    LOL now you call me an anti-semite.. I should report you but some how I expect nothing to come of that.
    No, anti-Semitism is holding sentiments against Jews.
    I was saying that you have a problem with the inquiry because it is managed by Israelis.
    An inquiry set up by the Israeli government will never be independent enough for god sake.
    Exactly what I said. Hey look, you've just called yourself an anti-Semite.
    You can't accept the fact that this inquiry is independent, you'd only be satisfied with an inquiry that is not managed by Israelis.
    A British independent inquiry set by the British government for example has reached the conclusion that Bloody Sunday was indeed a misdeed.
    You wouldn't however have problem with that committee because it was not set by Israel, you let your political opinion take over your rationalism.
    Have you ever heard of conflict of interest? I know it is an alien thing for most American's but you live on this side of the pond so you should at least have heard of the concept. The other side will never ever accept the findings, just like Israel would never ever accept any independent inquiry set up by Hamas.
    Who's the other side lol?
    This inquiry is not trying to satisfy the Free Gaza movement, I think such notion would be absurd. The inquiry is trying to satisfy the international call for an independent investigation after the flotilla incident.
    That is why we need an international inquiry where non of the sides involved in the dispute are sitting on the judging panel.
    Well like it or not the body doing the inquiry is the same body behind the Goldstone committee, and it is a body that the majority of its work, which is supposed to be international, was centered on Israel.
    The UNHCR, the United Nations Human Rights Council is simply another name for "the United Nations committee for anti-Israeli decisions.
    It's a biased body that is dominated by third world countries.
    LOL what a lame excuse. Great way to protect the guilty.. sorry we can reveal who it is, but yes he did shoot the Turk 5 times in the head.
    And we have evidence that shows that Turk along with the rest of the people on board of the top deck attacking soldiers, so excuse me for not showing compassion towards those who try to stab soldiers with knives and throw them off decks.
    Wanna bet? For one, how do we know that the evidence present is all the evidence available? After all the IDF has been sitting on it for months now.
    Actually I'm not sure there was so much evidence from the activist's side to begin with.
    They've released one long video type of one hour or so showing the activists attacking the speed boats and throwing stuff on the chopper before it has released the soldiers onto the board, and we have the Israeli types showing the activists attacking soldiers, contrary to their initial statement that soldiers were not attacked.
    We also have some photos the activists have taken and released of Israeli soldiers being beaten up and bleeding on the ground.
    Besides that I don't think there was so much evidence, we're speaking about one single ship were a great portion of the people were busy trying to kill Israeli soldiers.
    And so what?

    Listen we are not debating about if the activists attacked the IDF troops, that is beyond doubt in my opinion. Just as it is beyond doubt that the IDF troopers should never have been there and they reacted very unprofessionally.
    Yeah, just as it is beyond doubt that the world is flat and that the honey bee weights 500 kilograms on average.
    No, it is beyond doubt that the soldiers have acted professionally showing great restraint on the face of a huge violent mob that is trying to lynch them with cold and hot weapons, and it is beyond doubt that Israel has a right to prevent weapons from reaching the Gaza Strip which is controlled by an anti-Israeli terrorist organization.
    What I, and many others are very interested in, is the differences in what that activists are saying and what the IDF is saying. For example there are reports that people were shot dead even before the IDF troops hit the deck of the ship. If people were already shot before the IDF troops hit the deck, then that could very well explain why the IDF troops were attacked.. people were defending themselves against a hostile force that already had killed a few. Without all evidence gathered from all sides and a credible time-line, then we will never know and this dispute will go down in a long line unresolved disputes that will rot away any form of possible peace in the region. It has already all but destroyed the relationship between Turkey and Israel for one.
    The activists have also said that they haven't attacked soldiers, I see no reason to believe their assertions.
    Besides that, the logical mind says that when you're being shot at you're not waiting for a landing military chopper, filled with soldiers, with knives and crowbars - it doesn't make even a tiny bit of sense.
    Furthermore if it was true that the army has engaged the ship from the beginning with live ammunition, there is no explanation as to why the soldiers have let themselves be beaten by the massive crowd instead of pulling the pistols and shooting them, or better, just shoot them down from the chopper. Again, it doesn't make any tiny bit of sense at all.
    Never asked for it personally. I want the world to have the evidence and via a fully independent investigation.
    The Israeli investigations carries those traits. It's a transparent fully independent investigation that involves international observers in it.
    And yes that means, no Palestinians, no Turks and no Israelis on the investigation panel.
    Throughout the history of the modern warfare, when was a country investigated by an international committee?
    The British investigation for the Iraq war was, wait for it, British.
    Again, the only reason why you don't trust the Israeli one is because it is Israeli. If it was British I doubt there would be any calls against it at all.
    It shows one view. Just as the edited footage of the Department of Agriculture woman showed her as a racist, where as the full version did not show anything remotely that way. The IDF have already admitted that the footage they released is edited. Footage taken by the activists could help a lot, but only selected bits have been released by the IDF... of course confirming their view.
    The footage is consecutive so I have no idea what you're talking about, but besides that the activists have released their own edited footage which unsurprisingly has failed to base their own version of the incident.
    So they killed themselves? And when you take some ones life then it is murder/homicide. Now that murder can be justified as in self defence or in war, but it is still murder/homicide. Even if you kill someone by accident, it is still classified as murder/homicide.
    We don't know if they were all killed by the soldiers.
    The soldiers were being fired on as well, and it is very likely that the shooters weren't really trained at shooting.
    You have a lot to base it on.. what exactly? The IDF press releases and what you see on an edited grainy video .. released by the IDF? Seriously..
    The countless of videos and the contradicting statements from the activists, yes, that is enough evidence not merely to base it but to make it obvious.
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    Re: UN names flotilla inquiry panel

    Quote Originally Posted by alexa View Post
    Very little is really known about what happened except for the Israeli version
    What about the videos the perpetrators posted on their website where they bragged about stabbing Israelis?
    If you expect people to be rational, you aren't being rational.

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