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Thread: Army discharges don't ask critic who told

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    Re: Army discharges don't ask critic who told

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    If the entire premise if your argument is going to be, "You don't have military experience so you can't say anything", then there is nothing left to talk about because you are shutting down all dialogue. The American military answers to the American people via the CinC who is the President. That means the public has a say in military policy. I think you forget who it is you serve and who it is you're accountable to.
    You're speaking from an uninformed posistion, that's all.

    We had this discussion a few months back and my point then is the same as now. 7 of 10 vets tell you what's wrong and you ingore what we say. If 7 of 10 mechanics tell you whats wrong with your car, who are you going to believe?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Army discharges don't ask critic who told

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    It's not okay to discriminate. no cake involved.
    Then you must be against DADT, otherwise your a hypocrite. These same exact arguments were used against integrating the military years ago, and they are just as bad as they are now.

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    Re: Army discharges don't ask critic who told

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Patriot View Post
    It ain't happening. I had ancestors that served in the Missouri Partisan Rangers and were enlisted into the Confederate Army. They didn't survive the war, but their baby brother did. Their baby brother was my great-great-great grandfather and was forcibly enlisted into the US Army at gunpoint. This was right after the US Army invaded the family farmland, killed their dad, and gangraped their mama. Before my great-great grandfather died, he made his children and grandchildren to never honor his service because he was ordered to rape, murder, and rob from innocent civilians. He, instead, told them to honor the service of his older brothers. I do so by showing the Third National to remember their service to the state of Missouri and the Confederate States of America. The funny thing is that my family never owned slaves and only fought on the side of the Confederacy because the US Army invaded Missouri and massacred their family.
    I had a g-g-grandfather that served with Terry's Texas Rangers, a g-g-grandfather who served with the 46th Mississippi Infantry, a g-g-grandfather who was a slave at Little Eva Plantation and a g-g-g-grandfther who was a slave at Kateland Plantation. Mossouri partisan rangers were ****ing trash. They disgraced the flag.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Army discharges don't ask critic who told

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    Then you must be against DADT, otherwise your a hypocrite. These same exact arguments were used against integrating the military years ago, and they are just as bad as they are now.
    I support DADT. Anyone who doesn't is a hypocrite.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Army discharges don't ask critic who told

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    You're speaking from an uninformed posistion, that's all.

    We had this discussion a few months back and my point then is the same as now. 7 of 10 vets tell you what's wrong and you ingore what we say. If 7 of 10 mechanics tell you whats wrong with your car, who are you going to believe?
    Nobody is ignoring vets. The military commanders have been doing information gathering with the soldiers, sending out surveys and getting feedback. If 7 out of 10 vets have concerns and worries, then they can voice them; if 7 out of 10 vets are simply saying, "Gays in the military is wrong," those aren't acceptable reasons.

    If 7 out of 10 vets said we should nuke the entire Middle East, that wouldn't make them right. 7 out of 10 vets don't form military policy, they receive their orders and obey them. That's your job, now you should do it and let people higher than you do the policy making, and stop acting like you are holier-than-thou just because you served some time.

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    Re: Army discharges don't ask critic who told

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    I had a g-g-grandfather that served with Terry's Texas Rangers, a g-g-grandfather who served with the 46th Mississippi Infantry, a g-g-grandfather who was a slave at Little Eva Plantation and a g-g-g-grandfther who was a slave at Kateland Plantation. Mossouri partisan rangers were ****ing trash. They disgraced the flag.
    If you say so.

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    Re: Army discharges don't ask critic who told

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    Nobody is ignoring vets. The military commanders have been doing information gathering with the soldiers, sending out surveys and getting feedback. If 7 out of 10 vets have concerns and worries, then they can voice them; if 7 out of 10 vets are simply saying, "Gays in the military is wrong," those aren't acceptable reasons.

    If 7 out of 10 vets said we should nuke the entire Middle East, that wouldn't make them right. 7 out of 10 vets don't form military policy, they receive their orders and obey them. That's your job, now you should do it and let people higher than you do the policy making, and stop acting like you are holier-than-thou just because you served some time.
    I'm talking about the guys on this forum that have argued against your point of view. The guys that I know who have served in the RCA would say that you're FOS ( fulla ****)
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Army discharges don't ask critic who told

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Patriot View Post
    If you say so.
    Damn right, I say so!

    My mother is white and my father is black. You bet I ****ing say so!
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Army discharges don't ask critic who told

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    I'm talking about the guys on this forum that have argued against your point of view. The guys that I know who have served in the RCA would say that you're FOS ( fulla ****)
    Saying I'm full of **** doesn't prove it to be so. You haven't really argued specific points about policy that would make me want to stop and consider your view. So far you're just saying ad nauseum that my opinion doesn't matter because I was never a soldier. If that's the best you can do then no wonder DADT is being lifted. You don't have a shred of reason to stand on.

    Now, are you going to put forth some kind of logical argument that has real substance or are you going to keep talking out of your ass?

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    Re: Army discharges don't ask critic who told

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    You may not need military experience to see the prejudicial and discriminatory policy, but you do need military experience to see how this policy is beneficial to unit cohesion and the maintanance of discipline within the ranks.

    Do you understand what unit cohesion and discipline in the ranks is? Care to explain--from your experience in the military--what that is?
    How exactly can you see something that has never been allowed to occur? You state that you don't know if anyone you served with was homosexual, but yet you contend that this policy is what holds together the unit cohesion and morale. How can you know for sure, if you don't even know whether you have served with a homosexual or not? Where is your proof? Not what you think might happen, but actual proof that homosexuals serving openly will harm unit cohesion.

    Two homosexuals above you can now be having a relationship, you just don't know about it. Most likely, if they are your superiors however, they won't come out and openly declare themselves as gay lovers just because DADT and the homosexuality/sodomy rules are repealed, because then they are opened up to a charge of fraternization.

    Even if you are just talking about junior enlisted in combat positions in a homosexual relationship, chances are really good that they will still keep their relationship well hidden. Those who are in will be well aware of their fellow Marines/soldiers views on homosexuality and especially on homosexual fraternization, so what exactly would be their motivation for coming out to their unit? Just because they can come out, doesn't mean they have to. It means they don't have to be afraid that if they are found they are found to be homosexual, that they will be discharged. If they are involved in an inappropriate relationship, then they may still have to fear punishment, but it would be due to their inappropriate relationship, and not their sexuality.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

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