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Thread: Army discharges don't ask critic who told

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    Re: Army discharges don't ask critic who told

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Sure. But there are other things to consider, too. I don't agree with DADT, and think it should be repealed, but I also see how other issues could factor into unit cohesion.
    It would be interesting to hear from those in his unit...whether they felt that his being gay hurt unit cohesion.
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    Re: Army discharges don't ask critic who told

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    But, he wasn't honest upon joining the Army. He knowingly violated the DoD's ban on gays serving in the military. The pinnacle of integrity would have dictated that he refused to join the Army, because the DoD doesn't allow gays to serve in the military, or adhered to DADT.

    But, that's not even close to what he did. He tried to say that breaking the rules is some how an exhibition of integrity.
    Alright, your all into not breaking the rules. I get that, but do you think DADT should be repealed? And if it was, would you be this upset if someone beat up an openly gay solider? Because they were breaking the rules, a rule which is by far worse than a dress code violation.

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    Re: Army discharges don't ask critic who told

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    It would be interesting to hear from those in his unit...whether they felt that his being gay hurt unit cohesion.
    That would be an interesting examination. Ask the people in a unit who had a gay member... who was discharged for violating DADT if they felt that member hurt their unit.
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    Re: Army discharges don't ask critic who told

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    Telling a buddy in private that you're gay would, I highly doubt, cause a discharge. Now if you showed up on base wearing a fishnet shirt, assless chaps and yelling with a lisp, then sure.

    People get fired from the private sector for a whole lot less. What makes the military so damned special?
    There is a huge flaw in your argument here: telling any one you are gay is a high risk activity for a gay soldier. It can and does lead almost directly to a discharge. The military uses 3 criteria for discharging some one under DADT, words, actions, marriage. Words is the most common reason to discharge some one under DADT. It means that if you tell some one you are gay, and they tell some one in the chain of command, you get discharged.

    Now, oddly enough, your second example is not going to get some one discharged for acts. Acts refers simply to sex with some one of the same sex. Dressing in a "gay" manner(hint: gays who join the military are not the type who dress or act like that) is not going to get you a DADT discharge.

    So, in point of fact, you are wrong in both assertions, and your scenario is entirely false. People in the private sector do not get discharged(fired) for telling coworkers they are gay, they do in the military.
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    Re: Army discharges don't ask critic who told

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Army Discharges Lt. Dan Choi, 'Don't Ask' Critic Who Told

    I challenge anyone who is against repealing the DADT policy to watch the video in the attached link and make an argument why it strengthen the military to discharge this West Point graduate.

    As he says in the end of the video, there have been nothing but positive ramifications among his infantry in the 17 months since he came out..."Honesty is the foundation of building teamwork and troop cohension". How can anyone possibly disagree with that?
    Choi should have been discharged, it was an entirely appropriate discharge, and in truth he does not help the pro-gay in the military cause. He was not a good soldier, because he chose to violate the rules on a consistent basis. Until DADT is repealed(and it will be), gays in the military have to do their utmost to be good soldiers and sailors. They can, once out, use that as evidence that yes, gays can be good for the military. We have a couple gay people who have served and gotten out after their enlistment who post here, and I think they are much better examples of why DADT should be repealed.
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    Re: Army discharges don't ask critic who told

    Is there a rule that would be being broken if heterosexual soldiers who support gays in the military were to all start stating that they are gay? Like, on a specified day all heterosexual enlisted folks who support the repeal of DADT posting to their Facebook wall "I am gay." Or whatever.
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    Re: Army discharges don't ask critic who told

    Quote Originally Posted by Dezaad View Post
    Is there a rule that would be being broken if heterosexual soldiers who support gays in the military were to all start stating that they are gay? Like, on a specified day all heterosexual enlisted folks who support the repeal of DADT posting to their Facebook wall "I am gay." Or whatever.
    The facebook idea could get them all discharged. Remember, saying "I am gay" is one of the ways to be discharged under DADT. Depends on what they did and whether they where instructed not to. It's probably a bad idea though
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
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    Re: Army discharges don't ask critic who told

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    How can you say that? Did the Army ask him if he was gay? Did he lie at MEPS and tell them he was a heterosexual in response to their questions? I wasn't aware they even asked about that...in fact, half of DADT is...*gasp* "Don't Ask".

    So again, how does this affect his integrity?
    Did the Army mandate that he, ...don't tell? He took and oath to follow the rules, as an officer and a gentleman. He violated that oath. His integrity is shot.
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    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Army discharges don't ask critic who told

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    Alright, your all into not breaking the rules. I get that, but do you think DADT should be repealed?
    No, I do not. I don't think it should be ok for any soldier to have to reveal his/her sexual orientation, regardless of what his/her sexual orientation may be. It will most certainly lead to discrimination.



    And if it was, would you be this upset if someone beat up an openly gay solider? Because they were breaking the rules, a rule which is by far worse than a dress code violation.
    Of course I would be upset if a soldier assaulted another soldier, unless it was self defense.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Army discharges don't ask critic who told

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Did the Army mandate that he, ...don't tell? He took and oath to follow the rules, as an officer and a gentleman. He violated that oath. His integrity is shot.
    That's typical right-wing logic for you. Telling a lie means you have integrity. Telling the truth means you lack integrity. Yup.....sounds like the right-wing.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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