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Democrats may stop Bush-era tax cuts for wealthy from expiring

VanceMack said:
The correct verbage would be "defeat proposed extensions of unemployment checks" or "extend MORE government bailout dollars because the unemployment rate still blows".
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Or, "don't go further into the debt quagmire by asking that we offset any additional unemployment costs with spending cuts"
 
Let's turn everything into "class warfare."

Why would any sane group of people vote to raise taxes during the worst recession we've seen since 1929? Anybody know? Don't bother telling me it's not a tax increase, because it is.

If the inheritance tax (part of the issue) were based on 55% of anything over $500 instead of $1,000,000 as proposed, people would be goin' crazy. Confiscation of wealth. Nothing more.

I wish more people would "get it." It's not all about your freakin' ox -- it's everybody's ox.
 
disneydude said:
If you haven't noticed, the middle class is shrinking....thanks to Corporate Welfare and Greed that have turned those heroic middle class individuals into unforgiveably rich bastards
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Your post seemed to have gotten cut off. I fixed it for you.
 
MaggieD said:
Let's turn everything into "class warfare."

Why would any sane group of people vote to raise taxes during the worst recession we've seen since 1929? Anybody know? Don't bother telling me it's not a tax increase, because it is.

If the inheritance tax (part of the issue) were based on 55% of anything over $500 instead of $1,000,000 as proposed, people would be goin' crazy. Confiscation of wealth. Nothing more.

I wish more people would "get it." It's not all about your freakin' ox -- it's everybody's ox.
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This, it's the truth.
 
@ The Dane -- If it isn't greed to covet those things one can't afford, what is it? Why would people finance a big screen at 29% interest and then complain about the interest rate? I will say it's everybody's greed for material things. Not just the middle class.
 
The Dane said:
Haha, nope.
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Yep. :)
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
The middle class have it pretty good.
Everyone should stop whining.
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The middle class is shrinking and economic mobility is being frozen out. The Middle class should have it pretty good, it should be a comfortable life style (since they are middle class). I have no quarrels with that. I have problems with policies these days which rob more from the middle class to give to the elite. Policies which endorse things such as corporate capitalism over free market capitalism which has the effect of freezing out economic mobility so that it becomes harder and harder to change your lot in life. There's plenty of problems which occur once the government starts pandering to the aristocracy.
 
The Dane said:
http://www.epi.org/page/-/old/stmt/2003/statement_signed.pdf
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That link showed 14 economists...the majority of which were UC Berkely professors. SHOCKING! :shock:

I wonder what THEIR annual salary is. I wonder what they contribute to the poor, not through tax donations but out of the goodness of their hearts.

Their argument is a social agenda, not an economic agenda. If we dont take those peoples money we cant spend more money on social security, medicare, and other social spending programs.

I wonder if you folks REALLY TRULY believe that the economic decisions are TRULY made just so the rich can get richer. I wonder if you accept that there may indeed be FUNDAMENTAL DIFFERENCES in how people see the most effective way to build an economy. I wonder if you ever stop to realize that MOST of the people that bitch and moan about the rich dont have jobs, or work in underemployment situations, have never built businesses nor taken personal risk in business ventures...have been by all measures what can only be described as utter failures in the realm of personal economics...and THESE people are the ones that think they should be able to decide Americas economic future. THESE people think they know best how to build an economy. Try building a personal budget first.
 
Ikari said:
The middle class is shrinking and economic mobility is being frozen out. The Middle class should have it pretty good, it should be a comfortable life style (since they are middle class). I have no quarrels with that. I have problems with policies these days which rob more from the middle class to give to the elite. Policies which endorse things such as corporate capitalism over free market capitalism which has the effect of freezing out economic mobility so that it becomes harder and harder to change your lot in life. There's plenty of problems which occur once the government starts pandering to the aristocracy.
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Personal income may be shrinking to a minor degree but uncounted benefits have been increasing.
SCHIP, tax breaks, etc.

I don't buy it.

Here's a clue to everyone, do the things that rich people do.
Invest in stocks that pay dividends, so you can join the "elite."
 
Ikari said:
I don't know, they already took a bunch of my money and gave it to the rich ass banks and lenders who caused this mess in the first place. Seems to me that they're doing a fine job at it. And a quarter of a million dollars a year makes you wealthy. You may not be stupid filthy rich like the true aristocracy, but you're damned well off.
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It's one thing to be actively giving money to the heads of big banks/corporations, or making policies which give them an advantage. But it's another thing to just not take even more money from those making $250k a year (trust me, that much does not always mean you are "rich" by most peoples' definition of rich) when they already have the giant's share of the tax burden to begin with, and pay a higher portion of their income in taxes than everyone else to begin with.

Really, raising taxes for everyone who makes over $250k will probably help the so-called aristocracy more than hurt them; the bottom part of that group, small business owners and such, will be significantly more burdened by that raise, and so the richest part of that group will have less competition from below to worry about.
 
Taylor said:
I see. We should have let the financial system collapse, brought the lending industry to screaming halt, and encumbered all related transactions to build some trains that people won't use and to give them faster porn downloads to pass all the free time they'd be having without jobs.

Stupid rich people!
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Done with the hyperbole? Some of the stop gaps could have still worked, everything which was done was unnecessary and expensive and benefited the elite rather than the individual. We can get more companies, that's not a problem. There's always some poor bastard out there looking to get rich who can make a company and rise up if he's allowed to.

And if you don't think people would use an actual high speed rail system, then you're stupid. Because the high speed rail system can link Denver to Chicago in a matter of hours, there's not the security hassle you'll get on planes, it'll probably be cheaper too. It's great not only for tourists wanting to maybe spend a day or weekend in say New York City, but for business men too giving an alternative to driving or flying. And the majority of internet usage, BTW, isn't for porn. If you wish to be logical and rational and honest, we can talk about the differing ways government could have been used to have a better effect on lessening the effects of this recession. If you want to go on your hyperbole and intellectually dishonest path; have fun at it but you'll be ignored.
 
Ikari said:
The middle class is shrinking and economic mobility is being frozen out. The Middle class should have it pretty good, it should be a comfortable life style (since they are middle class). I have no quarrels with that. I have problems with policies these days which rob more from the middle class to give to the elite. Policies which endorse things such as corporate capitalism over free market capitalism which has the effect of freezing out economic mobility so that it becomes harder and harder to change your lot in life. There's plenty of problems which occur once the government starts pandering to the aristocracy.
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The middle class IS shrinking. Those driven to succeed ARE succeeding. And many that have gotten used to mommy and daddy taking care of them didnt do **** to prepare themselves for the real world. And true enough...unemployment continues to climb...its not 10%...its MUCH higher...in some cities its in the 40% range. You dont FIX that by increasing debt and government spending and taxing people out of your economic market.
 
Ikari said:
The middle class is shrinking and economic mobility is being frozen out. The Middle class should have it pretty good, it should be a comfortable life style (since they are middle class). I have no quarrels with that. I have problems with policies these days which rob more from the middle class to give to the elite. Policies which endorse things such as corporate capitalism over free market capitalism which has the effect of freezing out economic mobility so that it becomes harder and harder to change your lot in life. There's plenty of problems which occur once the government starts pandering to the aristocracy.
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Are you kidding me? You should have a lot more problems with the middle class giving to lower-income assistance -- through programs that are so corrupt it'd make a sailor blush.
 
Dav said:
Really, raising taxes for everyone who makes over $250k will probably help the so-called aristocracy more than hurt them; the bottom part of that group, small business owners and such, will be significantly more burdened by that raise, and so the richest part of that group will have less competition from below to worry about.
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The ones making 250K a year aren't in the aristocracy. Those are the people like Buffett and such, the people who have almost no tax liability due to all the rules being made for them. Still, it's a comfortable life style and I don't think you're considered Middle class at that point, not even Upper-Middle class. The taxes on those making a lot of money goes up and up and up, and they pay disproportionately larger amounts of money. I'm not above talking about overall tax bracket changes. However, right now we're in a situation where we're looking like we're up ****'s creek without a paddle. And we need to do something to get the gravy train moving. The people making less than the 250K are the ones that really need the help, the ones who would actually spend if they had the free money but don't, and the ones who are most hurting due to unemployment and ****ty ass government. If we could make a bank of temporary jobs which could exist (probably as public works jobs) until the economy recovers, we would have went well further in curbing the effects of the recession while having served more people.
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
Personal income may be shrinking to a minor degree but uncounted benefits have been increasing.
SCHIP, tax breaks, etc.

I don't buy it.

Here's a clue to everyone, do the things that rich people do.
Invest in stocks that pay dividends, so you can join the "elite."
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OR

Listen to abject economic failures and join them in bitching about the injustices of the world.

OR

Listen to college professors that may be book smart or maybe even have written a book or two themselves but have absolutely no clue with regard to how the real world actually works.

To the liberal mind, those that bust their ass to succeed should fairly be penalized by being forced to pay for all the crippled and dependent pets that liberal politics and policies have created. Thats 'fair'.
 
VanceMack said:
OR

Listen to abject economic failures and join them in bitching about the injustices of the world.

OR

Listen to college professors that may be book smart or maybe even have written a book or two themselves but have absolutely no clue with regard to how the real world actually works.
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:lol: True enough.

VanceMack said:
To the liberal mind, those that bust their ass to succeed should fairly be penalized by being forced to pay for all the crippled and dependent pets that liberal politics and policies have created. Thats 'fair'.
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Lets be nice, there are liberals who understand the consequences of such actions.
 
MaggieD said:
Are you kidding me? You should have a lot more problems with the middle class giving to lower-income assistance -- through programs that are so corrupt it'd make a sailor blush.
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Less of my money goes to them, and there are a lot of improvements which can still be made in those areas through improvements in the actual beurocracy. There are two situations, one where money is taken from all of us and given to the needy, and one where money is taken from all of us and given to the well to do. If you think I should be well more pissed about the former over the latter, you're mistaken. If you're going to take my money, I'd rather it go to the needy over the well to do.
 
Ikari said:
Less of my money goes to them, and there are a lot of improvements which can still be made in those areas through improvements in the actual beurocracy. There are two situations, one where money is taken from all of us and given to the needy, and one where money is taken from all of us and given to the well to do. If you think I should be well more pissed about the former over the latter, you're mistaken. If you're going to take my money, I'd rather it go to the needy over the well to do.
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There is nothing wrong with your position but remember that the "well to do" and the job creators are lumped in the same tax bracket together.
So increasing taxes on one, will do so on the other.

Not a good thing.
 
Ikari said:
Less of my money goes to them, and there are a lot of improvements which can still be made in those areas through improvements in the actual beurocracy. There are two situations, one where money is taken from all of us and given to the needy, and one where money is taken from all of us and given to the well to do. If you think I should be well more pissed about the former over the latter, you're mistaken. If you're going to take my money, I'd rather it go to the needy over the well to do.
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You say it's less of your money. But it's the lion's share. I assume you're talking about the bailouts. Extraordinary measures in extraordinary times.
 
Does anyone honestly believe that, if they got rid of the Bush tax cuts, the extra money would go toward the deficit?

And if you raise taxes on the "rich", they'll just compensate by reducing expenses elsewhere, such as their businesses and number of employees.
 
MaggieD said:
You say it's less of your money. But it's the lion's share. I assume you're talking about the bailouts. Extraordinary measures in extraordinary times.
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Proper measures always is more like it.
 
Ikari said:
And if you don't think people would use an actual high speed rail system, then you're stupid. Because the high speed rail system can link Denver to Chicago in a matter of hours, there's not the security hassle you'll get on planes, it'll probably be cheaper too.
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"Probably be cheaper?" Do some research before you go around calling people "stupid" for not being as naive on an issue as you are.

How long do you think it would take to get from Denver to Chicago on "high speed rail" - do you know how long it takes by plane?

Ikari said:
And the majority of internet usage, BTW, isn't for porn. If you wish to be logical and rational and honest, we can talk about the differing ways government could have been used to have a better effect on lessening the effects of this recession. If you want to go on your hyperbole and intellectually dishonest path; have fun at it but you'll be ignored.
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Oh i'm sorry... downloading (P2P file sharing) movies, music and porn. Let's spend tons of federal money to facilitate that.
 
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