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Thread: Unemployment benefits extension clears hurdle

  1. #61
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    Re: Unemployment benefits extension clears hurdle

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    A) you caused me click on a WND link. That is vile.

    B) he uses his own metric, using his own data collection method. There is zero evidence that it is more accurate than U6.
    A: I gave you two links, one WND and the other MSN Money. Both say the same thing in that the government cooked the books.

    B: He uses the same metric used to determine unemployment in the Great Depression. That is more accurate then the government selectively choosing what categories to count.
    Williams starts by discussing the headline economic data: "Real unemployment right now -- figured the way that the average person thinks of unemployment, meaning figured the way it was estimated back during the Great Depression -- is running about 12%. Real CPI right now is running at about 8%. And the real GDP probably is in contraction." (By "real," he means calculating the data the way they used to be calculated, not as inflation-adjusted.)

    He then explains how the employment data are compiled, noting that 5 million chronically unemployed people are not included in the statistics. In fact, there are seven or eight different employment statistics. One called U-3 is the official one. The broadest one, U-6, currently shows unemployment as running around 8.4%. As he explains, the one that's the most historically consistent is running around 12%.
    That is from the MSN Money article.

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    Re: Unemployment benefits extension clears hurdle

    Quote Originally Posted by BDBoop View Post
    If, IF anybody had watched the entire video, they'd already have the answers (and yes. They are good ones, based in history, and with citations). One of my pet peeves, as I've stated before, is willful ignorance. If you can't be bothered to watch the entire speech and give the man the benefit of the doubt, I can't be bothered to discuss this any further with you.

    We won. I'm happy. Life is good.
    Wilful ignorance... often is perpetuated via socialisations. I find it aggravating personally from personal experience. I grew up in a protestant family with a father that was a minister and a conservative politician. I understand though what it means to have your beliefs you were brought up on crushed by what seems some vague sophistry.

    After delving into politics seriously from 1995-1997 (three academic years) and reacting to that liberal arts education I took personal time to find opposing philosophy, to left wing philosophy. You see from 1995-1997 I lived with a sociologist that was a radical feminist. I know a lot of people make fun of them as being ball crushers.. but she never once did any of the sort. heh. At any rate after we broke up I took a negative attitude towards my liberal arts education and sought out ideological arguments that I assumed would be appropriate.

    Well I am a bit of a blogger and I had learned far right wing philosophical arguments. So.. I engaged in arguments as though I was a libertarian. But deep down the argument was about proving collectivists absolutely wrong. What I found out that even after reading and agreeing with particular right wing ideas.. I had a lot of questions that didn't get answered. I ignored all that and engaged in intellectual discourse as though it was sophistry. Like a game.. wilfully ignorant. Then in this one epic debate.. as far as I was concerned, I was forced to dig deep.. and I came up dry. The truth was that morality was founded in absolutism.. and the only way that could be is if there was a god that dictated it to be the case. Well when I realised this.. everything fell into place but it was a real disappointment. I realised I had been nothing but a dupe.

    Oh awesome video. A politician at work indeed.

  3. #63
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    Re: Unemployment benefits extension clears hurdle

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Does not answer the question. Minimum wage part time jobs are in high demand...
    Doesn't answer the question because the question made no sense. That the unemployment rate has raised from 4% to 10% in ten years does not mean there are "no jobs". It just means that, on a national level, job loss has exceeded job gain. This is different from an individual level, where there are always jobs available, even if the prior one was lost. 10% unemployment just means more people than usual in the phase between one job and another (though obviously, not always of their own choosing, and what's available is probably not as good as what would be available in a better economy - but it's still there).

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    Re: Unemployment benefits extension clears hurdle

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    Discussion? I would like thoughts on this from both sides.

    Article is here.
    I'm both for and against this measure.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
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    Re: Unemployment benefits extension clears hurdle

    Here's a Layoff List article about the real unemployment numbers.

    Mike: Many talking heads mention that the “official” unemployment rate of 6.7% is less than that of the 1974 and 1980 recessions, so that this newly minted recession won’t be as bad as the two previous recessions. What is not mentioned is that the reported rate of unemployment was changed during the Clinton administration. The change was the exclusion of discouraged workers from the reported unemployment rate. So if you include the discouraged workers, the official rate would be greater than 6.7%. Government manipulation of numbers makes the current situation look better than previous recessions, but that is not the case.

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    Re: Unemployment benefits extension clears hurdle

    Dav, I have posted this link before: News - Economy - Unemployment Map - WOODTV.com and WOOD TV8: Grand Rapids, MI

    This is the traditional unemployment rate, by county for the area I live in. If you put your mouse over any county, it will show you the monthly rate for that county. This is the traditional, not "real" unemployment rate. AS things get worse(and they have been), not only are there fewer jobs available, but more people looking for them. When traditional unemployment is between 12 and 19 %, "real" unemployment is well over 20 %, or around 1/4 of the people in west Michigan are unemployed or underemployed. Now ask yourself how many jobs are probably available.

    There are jobs. Nursing is in demand. Of course, it means 2 + years of school to get. Engineers are in demand(we are moving away from our core employment in the automotive and furniture business around here, with suppliers for those industries looking to diversify), but again, 4 years of school. Minimum wage, part time jobs, not so much. Jobs that pay enough to cover the bills and don't require an education, very very rare, and far more applicants than jobs.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

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    Re: Unemployment benefits extension clears hurdle

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Patriot View Post
    Here's a Layoff List article about the real unemployment numbers.
    I have looked into that claim and find exactly zero evidence to back it up.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Unemployment benefits extension clears hurdle

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Does not answer the question. Minimum wage part time jobs are in high demand...
    If that's true then why aren't people taking the minimum wage jobs temporarily? Answer - because they could make as much sitting home - looking on line for a few hours a day for a job - send a few email resume's and collect. All I'm saying is I'm not wired that way - if I stayed home on the computer looking for work for 2 months I'd go nuts. I'd have to stay busy - even at 7 or 8 bucks an hour.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Unemployment benefits extension clears hurdle

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Patriot View Post
    A: I gave you two links, one WND and the other MSN Money. Both say the same thing in that the government cooked the books.

    B: He uses the same metric used to determine unemployment in the Great Depression. That is more accurate then the government selectively choosing what categories to count.


    That is from the MSN Money article.
    Chronically unemployed("discouraged workers") are included in the U6 unemployment rate.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Unemployment benefits extension clears hurdle

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    If that's true then why aren't people taking the minimum wage jobs temporarily? Answer - because they could make as much sitting home - looking on line for a few hours a day for a job - send a few email resume's and collect. All I'm saying is I'm not wired that way - if I stayed home on the computer looking for work for 2 months I'd go nuts. I'd have to stay busy - even at 7 or 8 bucks an hour.
    They are taking those jobs. There just are not enough of them.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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