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Thread: Palin sparks Twitter fight on mosque

  1. #61
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    Re: Palin sparks Twitter fight on mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    Yeah I just got to that part. I think its a ridiculous default slur tossed out by the mentally feeble when they have their beliefs challenged in ways they can't handle. It's their problem, not yours, dude.
    So can you answer the questions, or are you just going to continue with the verbal handjobs?
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  2. #62
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    Re: Palin sparks Twitter fight on mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    The fact that they aren't showing that sensitivity to New Yorkers and the US smacks of a disrespect we should not allow within our own borders.
    Where is the law that says we have to show you respect? There's no such thing. The only thing which is to be guaranteed are our rights. But I find it funny that this is the argument used considering how the side against the exercise of rights tries to portray the other side.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  3. #63
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    Re: Palin sparks Twitter fight on mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    They bought it legit. If they legally purchase property, meet all the zoning codes and such for their building, who are you to say what they can and cannot do with their property? So yes, because you wish to use forms of social intimidation against the free exercise of rights just because you don't like the group who are exercising their rights you are a fascist. You'd use the government power if you could, but that's been rightfully limited so you have to find other forms of intimidation. Why don't you run out there and burn a huge cross on their property. Maybe that'll show them!
    I don't wish to use anything. I'm saying that reality is... when legal, legit and constitutional rights are all in line, that does NOT guarantee it will happen. Society, the public and politics play a part in allowing legal, legit and constitutional things to still occur. To say otherwise is not realistic. Some people do not like windmills - zoning laws are met, building permits are purchased, laws are observed and yet the public or the neighborhood decides they don't want it and pressures the town, politicans and the owners to not do it, and it sometimes doesn't happen. Whether you agree with that or not is irrelevant. That's the way life is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    People keep betraying the foundation of this country because they're scared, weak, stupid, or all three. It's high time we accept the realities of freedom instead of hiding under our desks praying to the government to save us from freedom.
    It has nothing to do with the foundation of this country. It's because we live in a society and must respect the community and not just laws. There are more than laws and papers and ideals like freedom and liberty in life. You might not like it, but that's the way it is.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  4. #64
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    Re: Palin sparks Twitter fight on mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Since you have not logically backed up anything you've said or demonstrated any proof as to why the rights of the individual should be infringed upon, what you've said here is nothing more than a lie. You're the one who called for social intimidation in order to prevent these people from exercising their proper rights. You can try to deny it all you want, run as much as you want it, try hard to make this only about my proper designation of you as a facsist, but you ain't changing reality in any of that. And end of the day, you're the one who calls for social intimidation against a group of people you don't like exercising their rights even though they've done everything by the book. Pretend all you want, hide your head in the sand; but you call for the exact opposite of the purpose of this country which recognizes the rights and liberties of the individual.
    Stick your head out in the real world once in a while. I don't need to pretend - I'm just being honest and real. You can't take it - not my problem.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  5. #65
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    Re: Palin sparks Twitter fight on mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    I don't wish to use anything. I'm saying that reality is... when legal, legit and constitutional rights are all in line, that does NOT guarantee it will happen. Society, the public and politics play a part in allowing legal, legit and constitutional things to still occur. To say otherwise is not realistic. Some people do not like windmills - zoning laws are met, building permits are purchased, laws are observed and yet the public or the neighborhood decides they don't want it and pressures the town, politicans and the owners to not do it, and it sometimes doesn't happen. Whether you agree with that or not is irrelevant. That's the way life is.
    Those are forms of social and political intimidation. And you damned well seem to be supporting it. Reality or no, it's not a practice which can be endorsed. Just because it happens doesn't mean we say "oh well". If we believe in the foundation of this country and the purpose of government as the founders envisioned, then we cannot accept this type of intimidation. We are meant to protect and proliferate the rights and liberties of the individual, not infringe and curtail them. There is nothing legitimate anyone can do to stop them. There is nothing just that anyone can do to stop them. Those trying to stop them do so unjustly and illegitimately.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    It has nothing to do with the foundation of this country. It's because we live in a society and must respect the community and not just laws. There are more than laws and papers and ideals like freedom and liberty in life. You might not like it, but that's the way it is.
    Where does it say anywhere I have to respect anything or anyone? I don't. I don't have to respect the community. The community MUST acknowledge my rights and liberties; that's the way it goes. Communities don't have rights, only individuals possess rights. It's not the individual which must respect the community, it's the other way around.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  6. #66
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    Re: Palin sparks Twitter fight on mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Stick your head out in the real world once in a while. I don't need to pretend - I'm just being honest and real. You can't take it - not my problem.
    It's not that I can't take it. It's that I've told you exactly what you are if you endorse that path.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  7. #67
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    Re: Palin sparks Twitter fight on mosque

    Moderator's Warning:
    Palin sparks Twitter fight on mosqueCease the personal attacks

  8. #68
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    Re: Palin sparks Twitter fight on mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Palin sparks Twitter fight on mosque - Yahoo! News


    Interesting. On one hand I agree with Palin, it feels like a provocation. On the other hand, Palin should mind her own damn business. This is a New York City issue. The Masjid Manhattan Mosque is only a few blocks away from the WTC. Muslims regularly can be seen praying OUTSIDE of the mosque when it is too busy. Is that a provocation? Not at all. Seems to me like one more issue she feels the need to cash in on. New Yorkers pride themselves in being multicultural. It should be up to them to decide whether or not the mosque is built and for what reason. Not up to politicians who pimp themselves out at every chance or their xenophobic followers around America.
    Unless they got these muslims who are having the mosque built on video expressing that the reason for building the mosque is to rub the 9-11 attacks in the faces of the victims I do not see it as a provocation on the part of the Muslims building the mosque. I think this is just lumping all Muslims together on the part of the people opposed to a mosque being built. SHould all priests be banned from being around children because of a few pedophile priests?
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  9. #69
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    Re: Palin sparks Twitter fight on mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    But what can you do about it? Seriously, if everything is legal then how can you justify acting against these people? They are within every right to practice their religion, to have a religious building, and they've done so all by the letter of the law. Yet some people still say we should do something. That you can use forms of social intimidation legitimately against the rights of these people in order to stop something they don't like but have no just reason to infringe upon. How can anyone endorse social intimidation to keep people from practicing their rights? That's all that's left open since this was all done legally.

    So for those opposed to the mosque, in a country built upon the rights and liberties of the individual, a limited government which was to support and proliferation our rights and liberties, in such a world how can you believe it justifiable to use forms of social intimidation against groups which are legally exercising their rights? How is that not betraying everything this country was founded on?
    Now that you and others want to change the subject because someone got nailed on a false premise I'll answer your question. There is absolutely nothing wrong with social pressure. The mosque builders can simply ignore it. There is nothing wrong with people not accepting the presence of the mosque so near ground zero. The mosque builders can choose to ignore that too. Apparently the Muslims building the mosque are getting their wishes becasue they are within their rights and to do so but it doesn't mean in any way that everyone has to like it. This is not taking away anyone's liberties.

  10. #70
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    Re: Palin sparks Twitter fight on mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by jambalaya View Post
    Now that you and others want to change the subject because someone got nailed on a false premise I'll answer your question. There is absolutely nothing wrong with social pressure. The mosque builders can simply ignore it. There is nothing wrong with people not accepting the presence of the mosque so near ground zero. The mosque builders can choose to ignore that too. Apparently the Muslims building the mosque are getting their wishes becasue they are within their rights and to do so but it doesn't mean in any way that everyone has to like it. This is not taking away anyone's liberties.
    It's one thing to bitch about something. It's another one to endorse the use of societal or political pressures on a specific group to infringe or prevent the exercise of a right; which was what was being espoused.

    There is plenty wrong with the use of social and political pressures to infringe upon the free exercise of rights by the individual. If you want to be pissed, be pissed. But there is nothing one can legitimately or justly do to prevent it.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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