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Thread: Palin sparks Twitter fight on mosque

  1. #41
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    Re: Palin sparks Twitter fight on mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Palin sparks Twitter fight on mosque - Yahoo! News





    Interesting. On one hand I agree with Palin, it feels like a provocation. On the other hand, Palin should mind her own damn business. This is a New York City issue. The Masjid Manhattan Mosque is only a few blocks away from the WTC. Muslims regularly can be seen praying OUTSIDE of the mosque when it is too busy. Is that a provocation? Not at all. Seems to me like one more issue she feels the need to cash in on. New Yorkers pride themselves in being multicultural. It should be up to them to decide whether or not the mosque is built and for what reason. Not up to politicians who pimp themselves out at every chance or their xenophobic followers around America.
    Provocation or not, they're doing nothing illegal so there ain't **** we can do about it. Sure we can sit around and be pissed off, piss and moan about it; but that's ain't gonna do anything. May as well be happy that we live in a country where something like this is even possible and enjoy the fact that we've adhered to the concepts of freedom and liberty for so long.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  2. #42
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    Re: Palin sparks Twitter fight on mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Provocation or not, they're doing nothing illegal so there ain't **** we can do about it. Sure we can sit around and be pissed off, piss and moan about it; but that's ain't gonna do anything. May as well be happy that we live in a country where something like this is even possible and enjoy the fact that we've adhered to the concepts of freedom and liberty for so long.
    I disagree to a point --- there's nothing illegal, that's clear. However lots of pissing and moaning politically and strategically can change people's minds about voting for or against allowing the measure. You know as well as I do that strings can and probably are being pulled to reject the building and lots of threats of pulling political money, public pressure, etc.. is being applied which could in the end reject this building or overturn it even after it's approval.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  3. #43
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    Re: Palin sparks Twitter fight on mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    A few things make me suspicious of this whole thing. First - down town - there's little to no one living near the WTC, so a mosque there is not really going to be a mosque, it's going to be a monument or a show place of sorts. Second - the proximity to the WTC lends some credibility to the charge: Islam builds monuments on their victories. That's an inflammatory charge but history does tend to show where Islam had victory's - monuments were erected, most of them were built or converted to mosques. One of the most famous - Hagia Sofia in Istanbul. Third, the imam view on Islam and aspects of sharia are a little disturbing. I personally find the proximity distasteful and laugh at the liberal diversity nonsense of Bloomberg as elitist and ignorant politics. He wants to show how ameniable New Yorkers are inviting Islam to the WTC. American's are forgiving but most are not THAT forgiving - and yes, it's been 10 years. I'd personally reject this building - tell them to find another spot in NY where we'd be happy to help them build. If they're dead set on this spot --- come back in another 20 years and we'll discuss it then.
    And by what authority will you infringe upon their freedom of religion? And what proof do you condemn these people by other than hearsay, assumption, and supposition? And do you think those are valid forms of "evidence" to excuse the use of government force against the rights and liberties of the individual?
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  4. #44
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    Re: Palin sparks Twitter fight on mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    I disagree to a point --- there's nothing illegal, that's clear. However lots of pissing and moaning politically and strategically can change people's minds about voting for or against allowing the measure. You know as well as I do that strings can and probably are being pulled to reject the building and lots of threats of pulling political money, public pressure, etc.. is being applied which could in the end reject this building or overturn it even after it's approval.
    There's no reason to "pull strings". There's nothing illegal here. These are citizens expressing and exercising their rights. I am not going to call for government intervention merely because of that. People MUST be allowed to practice and exercise their rights, it's the only way to remain free. The day we start robbing freedom from others due to fear or irrational argument is the day the terrorists really win.
    Last edited by Ikari; 07-20-10 at 12:52 PM.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  5. #45
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    Re: Palin sparks Twitter fight on mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    And by what authority will you infringe upon their freedom of religion? And what proof do you condemn these people by other than hearsay, assumption, and supposition? And do you think those are valid forms of "evidence" to excuse the use of government force against the rights and liberties of the individual?
    I have no evidence nor is any required. Politicall, social and public pressure can and do have an effect on what occurs - down to what buildings will and will not be built. I'm not making claims I'm simply pointing out that the arguements against putting up this mosque by those who are vocal about it are not 100% bupkus. They have concerns - and some of them may actually be legitimate. Americans like the constitution and law as much as the next guy - that does NOT mean that if they disagree with something which is legal and constitutional, that they won't use money, politics, or social / public pressure to get their way. We're all wearing big boy pants here I think and know that the sun does not rise and set strictly on the law or constitution.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  6. #46
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    Re: Palin sparks Twitter fight on mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    There's no reason to "pull strings".
    Says you. Others do not agree. People can excercise their rights and practices but are not entitled to do those things everywhere they want to for various reasons.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  7. #47
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    Re: Palin sparks Twitter fight on mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Says you. Others do not agree. People can excercise their rights and practices but are not entitled to do those things everywhere they want to for various reasons.
    It's a right, so actually yes they are. There are certain zoning things lets say for buildings; but given everything is within those boundaries they are indeed free to do so everywhere they want to for whatever reason they want to. It's a right, not a privilege.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  8. #48
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    Re: Palin sparks Twitter fight on mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    I have no evidence nor is any required. Politicall, social and public pressure can and do have an effect on what occurs - down to what buildings will and will not be built. I'm not making claims I'm simply pointing out that the arguements against putting up this mosque by those who are vocal about it are not 100% bupkus. They have concerns - and some of them may actually be legitimate. Americans like the constitution and law as much as the next guy - that does NOT mean that if they disagree with something which is legal and constitutional, that they won't use money, politics, or social / public pressure to get their way. We're all wearing big boy pants here I think and know that the sun does not rise and set strictly on the law or constitution.
    So you have no proof, no valid argument, nothing to support your claim; yet you'd still call for intervention in the exercise of rights because you want to. Sick. People like you are why we can't give up guns.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  9. #49
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    Re: Palin sparks Twitter fight on mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    It's a right, so actually yes they are. There are certain zoning things lets say for buildings; but given everything is within those boundaries they are indeed free to do so everywhere they want to for whatever reason they want to. It's a right, not a privilege.
    Where in the constitution does it state that I have the right to build a religious building anywhere I want? That does not however address social/public or politial pressure ... something you didn't mention and which occurs all the time when issues are legal and constitutional.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari
    So you have no proof, no valid argument, nothing to support your claim; yet you'd still call for intervention in the exercise of rights because you want to. Sick. People like you are why we can't give up guns.
    I'm not calling for anything - I'm stating that public, political and social pressure can and do make a difference. No evidence required.

    And people like you are why we have so many apologists.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  10. #50
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    Re: Palin sparks Twitter fight on mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Where in the constitution does it state that I have the right to build a religious building anywhere I want? That does not however address social/public or politial pressure ... something you didn't mention and which occurs all the time when issues are legal and constitutional.
    The Constitution doesn't limit the People, it limits the government. I mean, how many times does this have to be explained to fascists?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    I'm not calling for anything - I'm stating that public, political and social pressure can and do make a difference. No evidence required.
    Which is why what you engage in is treason and tyranny. Because you want to infringe upon people's rights without due process, without any evidence, nothing in the least other than "you want to". That's it. It's sick. Plain and simple. And can only be espoused by those with little to no knowledge and understanding of freedom and liberty.

    Land of the free, it's high time people learn what that means and the consequences of it. Sometimes I think this country has become a bunch of pussies. So ****ing scared over some groups exercising their rights that they piss themselves and try to look for alternate ways to infringe upon the free exercise of rights of others.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    And people like you are why we have so many apologists.
    People like you are why we have so much intrusive government and fascism. Maybe we should expel those who cannot live by the responsibilities and consequences of freedom.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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