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Thread: Palin sparks Twitter fight on mosque

  1. #121
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    Re: Palin sparks Twitter fight on mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    I didn't say it was off limits. But it should not be downplayed as being a hike away from what was a smoldering pile of rubble. It's practically on top of it and shows a little insensitivity on the parts of these Muslim groups building it.
    no doubt. that's what bothers me about this. why build there?

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    Re: Palin sparks Twitter fight on mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    no doubt. that's what bothers me about this. why build there?
    Well clearly, according to Ikari we are fascists and the resident menopause hormones ad, we're illogical. But whatever. Glad we are in agreement.

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    Re: Palin sparks Twitter fight on mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    no doubt. that's what bothers me about this. why build there?
    BECAUSE THEY OWN THE LAND THERE. There are a **** ton of churches building new buildings in my neighborhood. If it were up to me, I'd say we need another church in our neighborhood like we need a hole in the head. However, their buildings meet the conditions of zoning laws, and they have every right to build a new building on their property. I don't understand why this is so hard for people.

  4. #124
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    Re: Palin sparks Twitter fight on mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    no doubt. that's what bothers me about this. why build there?
    Because you don't get to pick where you can build things in NYC. If you're fortunate to acquire some property, you take what you can get.
    Because Muslims died in the WTC attack too.
    Because Muslims want to reach out and repair the damage caused to our relationship, and this building helps do that. (it's not a mosque. It's a community center with a mosque in it)
    Because Al-Qaeda has killed more Muslims than non-Muslims or Americans.
    Because Muslims aren't responsible for what happened. I'm German, should I stay away from anywhere where Jews worship?

    People who are bothered by this are only bothered because they are connecting the mosque builders to Al-Qaeda. Personally, if someone did that to me, say by connecting me to the KKK or Army of God, I'd be really ****ing insulted.
    Last edited by Deuce; 07-20-10 at 03:21 PM.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Palin sparks Twitter fight on mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    Well clearly, according to Ikari we are fascists and the resident menopause hormones ad, we're illogical. But whatever. Glad we are in agreement.
    Generally speaking, you're really smart or I wouldn't bother with you. Your posts on this issue, however, are more rant than reason.

  6. #126
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    Re: Palin sparks Twitter fight on mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    But are you saying this is proper and just action by the community?
    Depends on what it is... in this case, I think it's legitimate that some New Yorkers don't want this building there and they are perfectly within their perview and rights to use their influence to dissuade the building from being built. If an adult shop tried to move in 2 blocks from my house I'd protest the hell out of it too because I don't want that building near my property for a multitude of reasons - and I would try to influence the board, my town, politicians and gather my community together to fight such a place being built -yes. The community is not acting improper by disagreeing here.
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Palin sparks Twitter fight on mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    You have no rights to build anywhere you want.
    That is quite irrelevant to the entire issue. If they can legally obtain the right to build wherever they want then there is really no issue here. They can't be deprived of it.

    The whole wear a red shirt on Sunday thing is stupid because it doesn't take into account our right to free expression and the need for the State to show why it would have an interest in changing the color you wear on Sundays.
    FindLaw: U.S. Constitution: Fifth Amendment

    No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
    You can't deprive these people of property.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Palin sparks Twitter fight on mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Protest is protest, it's fine. But the question went beyond protest to actual action. Is it ok to use societal and/or political pressures to prevent an individual from exercising a right where there is no legal recourse to infringe upon said exercise.
    See, my issue is “societal and/or political pressure” is extremely broad. For example, I see protests as a “societal pressure”. I have no issues with that. I would see a politician ASKING them not to build there being political pressure, but again I see no problem with that. The only thing I would have issue with is if they actually passed a LAW barring them from acquiring that land or barring them the ability to make a religious site on that ground, specific to Islam. In that case they’re actually exerting legislative pressure against it, which I think is wrong.

    But having a politician ask them not to? Protesting it? Attempting to cause the general public to be upset about it through word of mouth? Etc? Yeah, no issue with that.

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    Re: Palin sparks Twitter fight on mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Which begs the question how many blocks should a "no mosque zone" be for people to be comfortable. 2 apparently is too close for many. 5? 10? Should we let the states decide how big these zones are or do it federally?
    First, I'm going to assume you mean a self imposed "no mosque zone" since I've never once advocated that this should be law but more social pressure and something they should've had the forethought and tact to do if they are HONEST about their goal being outreach.

    Hard to say. However if someone goal was TRULY outreach you think they’d take a little bit of time to potential focus group this. Get some opinions. Ask a few people in the groups they’re hoping to “reach out” to? I imagine you’d find that there’d be an equilibrium where you’d find a generalized distance that most of those that are upset with this would be okay with. Are you going to find a place where 100% everyone is happy with? No, they easily could’ve found a distance that would’ve negatively affected a FAR smaller portion of the group they’re supposedly trying to “reach out” to.

    Again, I’m not proposing a “No mosque zone”. I’m proposing a “don’t be a tactless douche and build it a bit farther away by your own choice” zone. I’m proposing a point I feel would’ve been far enough to where my view on them and their douchyness would change from one of “You have no tact and/or are an idiot” to “That’s an interesting idea and I hope it works”.

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    Re: Palin sparks Twitter fight on mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    Further, will this apply to ALL religious buildings, or just Islamic ones?
    Well, considering this line of back and forth between you two was in reference to a post I made about the distance I think that would’ve helped them alleviate some of the unrest I’ll imagine you’re talking about what I was actually suggesting, which is that they should’ve voluntarily looked into such and not a law, rather than acting like I was suggesting a “no mosque zone" in a legal sense.

    So, assuming that….nope, I’d understand and personally condone people exerting social pressure through protests, boycotts, and other things towards an Islamic focused building that close to the place where 19 individuals motivated and spurred by their extreme Islamic views perpetrated an attack planned by individuals motivated by their extreme Islamic that was the biggest in American history. Due to the undisputable fact that their religion was at the very least a significant factor in the attack that occurred, and due to the still sensitive nature of that day and that attack to many people, I can fully understand displeasure and unrest towards a building dedicated to said religion being put up near by it due to the emotions and reactions it causes in many of those that may be visiting or wish to visit the location. I could not understand such a feeling towards other religious buildings be it catholic, Baptist, Jewish, Hindu, Taoist, or any other because their particular religions isn’t intricately and undeniably tied to the attacks that day in a negative way.

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