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Thread: Traffic Cameras Worldwide Go Haywire

  1. #41
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    Re: Traffic Cameras Worldwide Go Haywire

    Quote Originally Posted by iangb View Post
    The organisation who sets up the camera and develops the photo (though I'd guess they're all digital these days) are said to be viewing the scene of the crime by proxy. Think of it as a webcam with an incredibly long delay/lag. It can't count as heresay, because it's documented and photographically proven; heresay is unprovable (by the heresayer, at least).
    It only proves that I was at the intersection or that I was driving through the zone covered by the camera. It does NOT prove I was running a red light or that I was speeding.
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    Re: Traffic Cameras Worldwide Go Haywire

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Patriot View Post
    They do bring the photos to court, but since the state is relying upon an inanimate object to report breaking the law then the defendent must be able to face his accusor. Can you cross examine an inanimate object? Can the inanimate object prove that you were behind the wheel at the time the pictures were taken? The answer to both of those questions is no. The guy doing the processing isn't trained in law nor in forensic science and wasn't there when the pictures were taken. The article has plenty of examples of where the processors show a lack of knowledge of the law and processed tickets against innocent people.
    Wait. Come again? So if a camera catches someone mugging a guy and the police accuse the guy of mugging and bring the video surveillence, he goes free? Don't some of the cameras record the driver as well?
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  3. #43
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    Re: Traffic Cameras Worldwide Go Haywire

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Wait. Come again? So if a camera catches someone mugging a guy and the police accuse the guy of mugging and bring the video surveillence, he goes free? Don't some of the cameras record the driver as well?
    Only if the police do not do a proper investigation and gather corraborating evidence. With the variations in vehicle height it's hard for a camera mounted to a light to be able to see a driver. Also, atmospheric conditions and the windshield make identification next to impossible.

  4. #44
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    Re: Traffic Cameras Worldwide Go Haywire

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    It only proves that I was at the intersection or that I was driving through the zone covered by the camera. It does NOT prove I was running a red light or that I was speeding.
    Umm no, it only proves that your car was at the intersection. It doesn't prove that you were behind the wheel.

  5. #45
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    Re: Traffic Cameras Worldwide Go Haywire

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Patriot View Post
    Umm no, it only proves that your car was at the intersection. It doesn't prove that you were behind the wheel.
    well, if your not driving the car, whoever was has to own up to it, its simple as that.
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  6. #46
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    Re: Traffic Cameras Worldwide Go Haywire

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Patriot View Post
    Speed cameras in California, Florida and Australia are not living up to their image of providing infallible evidence of traffic crimes. To the contrary, officials must find clever excuses to cover for the mistakes that are uncovered with increasing frequency.

    In Hallandale, Florida, the private firm American Traffic Solutions mailed a $125 ticket to Phil Kodroff accusing his car of "running a red light" at the intersection of Federal Highway and Hallandale Beach Boulevard on May 22. The Fort Lauderdale Sun Sentinel reported that Kodroff's vehicle committed this crime at the speed of 0 MPH.

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    Another reason to dislike traffic cameras. I dislike traffic cameras because it gives the government another inch towards surveillance cameras in every public space, not just big cities. There is also the fact that a cop pulling you over for speeding, taking 10-30 minutes of your day with passerbys gawking will have more of an impact than just a ticket mailed.
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  7. #47
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    Re: Traffic Cameras Worldwide Go Haywire

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Wait. Come again? So if a camera catches someone mugging a guy and the police accuse the guy of mugging and bring the video surveillence, he goes free? Don't some of the cameras record the driver as well?
    All documentary evidence (including videos) need to be "authenticated." Someone has to get on the stand and say "I can vouch that this accurately represents the situation at the time based on the following factors..." And usually you also have a witness who was there who can say "Yes, that shows what I described, there's me, and that's what I saw."

    A video of an incident by itself can provide evidence once it is admitted (such as for a robbery). Even then, it is just one piece of evidence, to which a person could argue that it's not him, but someone who looks similar, and so on.

    To convict someone by a picture -- which does not necessarily show criminal activity -- and which may not necessarily show who was driving -- is what is being questioned here. There is no one there who can say "that's him" or "I observed the incident and he was definitely driving."

  8. #48
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    Re: Traffic Cameras Worldwide Go Haywire

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    well, if your not driving the car, whoever was has to own up to it, its simple as that.
    Yeah, but (a) cars do not commit crimes and cannot be charged and (b) everyone has the right to remain silent, so now what do you do?

  9. #49
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    Re: Traffic Cameras Worldwide Go Haywire

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    well, if your not driving the car, whoever was has to own up to it, its simple as that.
    No, it's up to the government to prove that you were behind the wheel. You have no obligation to incriminate yourself under the Fifth Amendment. This means that the police should be investigating these tickets to meet the judicial requirements for court cases and they don't. The government does not have proof that you were actually driving your car when you got a red light ticket because the police do not investigate them. The only proof it has is that your car was on the street at a red light light and it ran it.

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