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Thread: Govt watchdog criticizes handling of car dealers

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    Re: Govt watchdog criticizes handling of car dealers

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    You're just re-stating your original premise, in an expanded form. Doing so does not negate my presponse, and does not create a specific question as to the credibility of the conclusion.
    The credibility of the conclusion is questioned because GM wanted to close dealerships as well, before the economic crisis. Had GM and Chrysler not wanted to close dealerships before the crisis, I would accept the finding of the conclusion. But that is not the case, and the conclusion as such is questionable as a result


    I would agree with the criticism in the way dealerships were closed

    The audit also found that General Motors "did not consistently follow its stated criteria" for reducing its dealer network and noted that Chrysler failed to offer an appeals process.
    but not that dealerships were to be closed.
    Last edited by Lord Tammerlain; 07-19-10 at 03:53 PM.
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    Re: Govt watchdog criticizes handling of car dealers

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    The credibility of the conclusion is questioned because GM wanted to close dealerships as well, before the economic crisis.
    No. Its not. Nothing in this illustrates that the closing of the dealerships, in total or on part, were -necessary- for the -survival- of GM or the economic recovery -of the nation-.

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    Re: Govt watchdog criticizes handling of car dealers

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    No. Its not. Nothing in this illustrates that the closing of the dealerships, in total or on part, were -necessary- for the -survival- of GM or the economic recovery -of the nation-.
    Then why did GM want to close dealerships before hand?

    For the fun of it?
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    Re: Govt watchdog criticizes handling of car dealers

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    Then why did GM want to close dealerships before hand?
    For the fun of it?
    To possibly make more money.
    This is different that it being -necessary for the survival of the company or -the economic recover of the nation-.

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    Re: Govt watchdog criticizes handling of car dealers

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    To possibly make more money.
    This is different that it being -necessary for the survival of the company or -the economic recover of the nation-.
    So when a company is losing money, and is very close to bankrupcty,( or in bankrupcty) cutting costs to make more money is not vital to the survival of the company?

    GM had to cut costs to survive as a profit making institution, the cutting of dealerships was one part of the overall cuts that GM had to make in order to survive. Other's included cuts to wages, salaries, the number of people employed by GM directly.
    Last edited by Lord Tammerlain; 07-19-10 at 04:02 PM.
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    Re: Govt watchdog criticizes handling of car dealers

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    To possibly make more money.
    This is different that it being -necessary for the survival of the company or -the economic recover of the nation-.
    that's kind of a different way of looking at it......if the company doesn't survive, NO JOBS survive. how does that help the national recovery?

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    Re: Govt watchdog criticizes handling of car dealers

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    So when a company is losing money, and is very close to bankrupcty,( or in bankrupcty) cutting costs to make more money is not vital to the survival of the company?
    The word you need to look at is "necessary".
    It has a specific and important meaning, one you seem to be missing.

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    Re: Govt watchdog criticizes handling of car dealers

    Look, the way I see it is if GM & Chrysler wanted to shut down auto dealerships before they received government bailout funds but couldn't due to contracts, etc., as the USAToday article provided by Lord Tammerlain points out, then the claim made by the AP in the OP is really spin and a moot point. The bailout merely allowed GM/Chrysler to do what it was eventually going to do anyway. It just looks like the government is to blame because the dealerships all closed after GM/Chrysler received government funds to remain afloat. Nonetheless, I contend that it was better to lose a few auto dealerships now than it would have been to lose a major player in the American auto industry as a whole.

    The big picture is thus: Lose American's #2 auto manufacturer, lose millions more jobs at auto production plants, metal and wiring shops, plastics companies, frieght services, auto parts stores, marketing and advertising agency jobs...the list goes on and on. If given the choice, I'd rather see a few hundred office clerks/secretaries, salesmen and mechanics collect unemployment than to see millions more doing the same. The action that is so cleverly being blamed on the government may have actually saved an American auto company.

    EDIT: There's also this from the OP's article:

    GM's initial plan submitted to the government in February 2009 called for the gradual reduction of 1,650 of its 5,750 dealers by the end of 2014. Chrysler pointed to plans to trim its network from 3,181 dealers to about 2,000 dealers by 2014.

    After Treasury rejected those earlier plans, the two companies released accelerated efforts to cut their dealership ranks. Chrysler said it would quickly close 789 dealers by June 2009 and GM said it would slash its dealer ranks by 1,454 by October 2010.
    GM: Proposed cutting 1650 dealerships, but cut only 1454 under TARP - Diff +196

    Chrysler: Proposed cutting 1181 dealerships, but cut only 789 under TARP - Diff +392

    Sounds to me like the government did GM & Chrysler a favor in more ways than one.

    "The needs of the many out-weigh the needs of the few or the one." - Spock
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 07-19-10 at 04:31 PM.

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    Re: Govt watchdog criticizes handling of car dealers

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    The word you need to look at is "necessary".
    It has a specific and important meaning, one you seem to be missing.
    you are missing the idea of profit and how GM needs to make one in order to stay operating. If cutting some dealerships will help GM make money then it was needed
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    Re: Govt watchdog criticizes handling of car dealers

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    you are missing the idea of profit and how GM needs to make one in order to stay operating. If cutting some dealerships will help GM make money then it was needed
    Again, you fail to comprehend the conditions inherent to the use of the term 'necessary'.

    Cutting the dealerships was only -necessary- if failing to do so would have resulted in the demise of the company and the failure of the economic recovery.

    You have absolutely NO hope of demonstrating any such thing.
    Last edited by Goobieman; 07-19-10 at 04:27 PM.

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