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Neo-Nazi Group Patrolling Ariz. Border

I shutter that the leader says he identifies with socialist group (doesn't like the term Neo-Nazi) However,
It sounds like this little group has been around and operating for some time. No trouble with shooting anyone or anything. Leave them alone as long as they aren't breaking any laws. Or better yet, secure the borders and they'll go away. That's all they asked for.
I think the leftstream media will soon try to make a connection between the Tea Party , who many members want a secure border, and a heavily armed alleged racist NAZI organization.
 
They're not assembling peacefully. They have an objective not a message and that's to patrol the border for Mexicans and other countries immigrants trying to enter. I don't understand why this is tolerated. Its against the law to patrol neighborhoods and intervene in conflicts better handled by the police and it should be against the law to patrol the border looking for a conflict.

These people are NOT like minute men who are simply looking to patrol the border. The minute men's message is a stronger border security. Neo Nazi's message is one of hate.
 
I don't understand why this is tolerated. Its against the law to patrol neighborhoods and intervene in conflicts better handled by the police and it should be against the law to patrol the border looking for a conflict. These people are NOT like minute men who are simply looking to patrol the border. The minute men's message is a stronger border security.

There are neighborhood watch groups all over the country. What makes you think they aren't simply looking to patrol the border? What would you "arrest" them for? What have they done?
 
Neighborhood watch groups are regulated by the local police.
 
They're not assembling peacefully. They have an objective not a message and that's to patrol the border for Mexicans and other countries immigrants trying to enter. I don't understand why this is tolerated. Its against the law to patrol neighborhoods and intervene in conflicts better handled by the police and it should be against the law to patrol the border looking for a conflict.

These people are NOT like minute men who are simply looking to patrol the border. The minute men's message is a stronger border security. Neo Nazi's message is one of hate.

If your statement were true, they would already be in jail or have charges pending.
It's public land they're patrolling, they have every right to be there.

National Socialists still retain their Constitutional rights.
 
I know the police departments are usually aware of them. And that there is a national organization offering training. I'm not sure that means that these neighborhood watch groups are controlled by law enforcement - or that all of them are registered because they have to be registered. I think it's just a cooperative effort. (Or do you have a link otherwise?)

If five guys in my neighborhood decide they want to patrol our neighborhood streets on Friday nights,and they're doing nothing wrong, why would they be arrested? It hasn't come to that yet, has it?
 
I was not making an issue with peacfully or violently. I was responded to the fact that these guys are not simply protesting, they are not simply issueing a MESSAGE, they have an objective and its one that should be handled better by officers trained to deal with smugglers and a myriad of other conflicts that could arise. It should not be handled by people who HATE the border crossers.
 
I was not making an issue with peacfully or violently. I was responded to the fact that these guys are not simply protesting, they are not simply issueing a MESSAGE, they have an objective and its one that should be handled better by officers trained to deal with smugglers and a myriad of other conflicts that could arise. It should not be handled by people who HATE the border crossers.

Their actions have been peaceful so far, reporting illegal border crossing to the authorities and giving the illegal aliens water.

I think it's wise of them to be armed, seeing as this was the same area that a border agent was killed.
 
I must have missed something -- I didn't get the feeling they were protesting. I picked up that they were patrolling the borders. What do you think their objective is if it's not to flesh out smugglers and illegals? Look the U.S. government brought this problem about all by its lonesome. People are sick and tired of being sick and tired. If these neo-Nazi's are giving pause to these people who break the law at will, I for one won't be looking to hard to find fault. Assuming they are not breaking any laws.
 
Look, I agree with the fact that they aren't doing anything illegal. Its just my opinion that hate groups shouldn't be patrolling the border. As far as taking legal action against them, I don't see anything that could be done unless they harm an immigrant, and I'm not saying they will, but given their groups message we are playing with fire here.

I do not agree that the news report was delivered to smeer other minute men.
 
Look, I agree with the fact that they aren't doing anything illegal. Its just my opinion that hate groups shouldn't be patrolling the border. As far as taking legal action against them, I don't see anything that could be done unless they harm an immigrant, and I'm not saying they will, but given their groups message we are playing with fire here.

No doubt their beliefs suck.

We shouldn't go around making presumptions of people, even the ****ty ones.
It could always come back on one of us, the decent folks.
 
@ The Dane -- Am I 100% comfortable with it? No. We're probably not very far apart here, looks like. What I do think is quite valuable about their participation is that it again shoves a pie in the face of our federal government. Do your freakin' job.

I like your post -- good information.
 
I agree we should be patrolling the border, and I agree that this administration as well as the last adminstration and the one before that, and before that ect has not taken care of this issue. However, we have a huge border and its a border on the scale that throughout history people have not been able to successfully control.

For example, remember the Berlin wall? Look how small that thing is compared to our entire southern border. Look how drastically authoritarian, shoot anyone who crosses, barbed fence, 15ft below AND ABOVE cement wall style control they had and STILL people were smuggling stuff through it. Imagine having to try and control a wall 100's of times bigger then that.

I completely agree we should control the border, I'm just not so sure that men in SUV's driving around with binoculars is going to help.
 
@ The Dane -- Exactly. How do we secure a border that's 2,000 miles long? It can't be done. It's a useless waste of resources to try. Our Congress and the White House (not just this one, as you point out, but seemingly forever) knows what it's going to take to solve this problem -- go after the businesses that give them jobs. But they're not. If this neo Nazi group gives them pause, it should. Everyone but the government sworn to protect us is sick of it. So, while I rather agree with you that their presence is insignificant, I hope it causes a great deal of embarrassment.

I'd also point out to anyone who'll listen that these workers crossing the borders to work in the fields are bringing their children with them -- and working them too. It's just a shame. And we should be ashamed.

Double the cost of freakin' green beans! I'll pay it!!
 
OK, would you be cool with the New Black Panther party patrolling the suburbs of Atlanta?

It depends what they are patrolling for... if they are patrolling for white men to kill, then they should be stopped as quickly as they violate the law. However, if they are acting as a posse because the police aren't stopping crime, and they are telling their fellow black men to act like men, or place them under citizens arrest, and drag them to the police station... really, all the power to them.

That said, I abhor the new black panther parties open statements to "kill some crackers. Kill some of their babies."

Now, that said, you go around calling for people to be killed, you will wind up getting arrested, or at least detained and asked questions, unless you've got FBI funding / handling / employment.

So what you're saying is we should wait for them to shoot people?

If they are patrolling the border and someone shoots at them, and they shoot back, that would be defined as justifiable manslaughter.

OK, so we take a group that adores Adolf Hitler, and is racist as hell, and we give them the right to do law enforcement? Not in MY country we don't.

It is within a citizens rights to place individuals under a 'citizens arrest'. There are certain guidelines to the process though, mainly that you must witness directly the crime being committed.

Ultimately, because it's border country, how about we just stop these guys by putting the army in control, take that line of tanks that crossed Iraq and have it drive lines through the border country in a moving patrol. I'd honestly rather see the army then citizens, regardless of their political affiliations, though I'd rather see citizens take on the job then leave the border as porous as it is.

If five guys in my neighborhood decide they want to patrol our neighborhood streets on Friday nights,and they're doing nothing wrong, why would they be arrested? It hasn't come to that yet, has it?

Exactly, they should not be arrested... and once they stop a crime or two from happening, then they might gain a reputation and some clout within the community. Community based solutions are among the best ideas in terms of solutions to the problems going on. Though, the border really is a millitary concern.

Look, I agree with the fact that they aren't doing anything illegal. Its just my opinion that hate groups shouldn't be patrolling the border. As far as taking legal action against them, I don't see anything that could be done unless they harm an immigrant, and I'm not saying they will, but given their groups message we are playing with fire here.

I do not agree that the news report was delivered to smeer other minute men.

I wouldn't go as far as minutemen explicitly, however, it's more like a general smear against ANYONE that wants to close the border.

Ready said he's planning patrols throughout the summer.

"If they don't want my people out there, then there's an easy way to send us home: Secure the border," he said. "We'll put our guns back on the shelf, and that'll be the end of that."

So, it might be some people that are legitimately pissed about the border issue and Obama's preference of Mexicans over Americans, and they decided to claim to be a neo-nazi group in order to get a stronger reaction... so, by NOT stopping these people, it's like Obama conceding that it's better to have neo-nazi citizens patrolling the border, then the constitutionally mandated millitary presence.

Afterall, there's only about 5 jobs that the federal government even has a legitimate job to do... one of those being to secure the border. Ya, it's tough.,.. but if we can invade several countries simultaneously, but we can't stop the people walking into our border, it creates a legitimate national security threat, and shows really how pathetic the country is... the Canada - US border is definately alot longer, but really... I'd bet it's tougher to get through the canadian side then the mexican side.
 
@ The Dane -- Exactly. How do we secure a border that's 2,000 miles long? It can't be done. It's a useless waste of resources to try. Our Congress and the White House (not just this one, as you point out, but seemingly forever) knows what it's going to take to solve this problem -- go after the businesses that give them jobs. But they're not. If this neo Nazi group gives them pause, it should. Everyone but the government sworn to protect us is sick of it. So, while I rather agree with you that their presence is insignificant, I hope it causes a great deal of embarrassment.

I'd also point out to anyone who'll listen that these workers crossing the borders to work in the fields are bringing their children with them -- and working them too. It's just a shame. And we should be ashamed.

Double the cost of freakin' green beans! I'll pay it!!

Actually, Obama is going after business's that give them jobs. I don't know how you're going to react to this but he is.

BREWSTER, Wash. — The Obama administration has replaced immigration raids at factories and farms with a quieter enforcement strategy: sending federal agents to scour companies’ records for illegal immigrant workers.

While the sweeps of the past commonly led to the deportation of such workers, the “silent raids,” as employers call the audits, usually result in the workers being fired, but in many cases they are not deported.

Over the past year, Immigration and Customs Enforcement has conducted audits of employee files at more than 2,900 companies. The agency has levied a record $3 million in civil fines so far this year on businesses that hired unauthorized immigrants, according to official figures. Thousands of those workers have been fired, immigrant groups estimate.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/10/us/10enforce.html

Also, deporting them is an absolute nightmare. First of all, you can't just send them all back to Mexico as alot of them aren't from Mexico, they could be from one of a dozen other countries SOUTH of Mexico. Even if you did find out where each and every single one of them came from, who's to say that these countries will accept them? Also, once you do figure out where they are from, and their countries take them, whats to stop them from crossing the border again, and by then the government has already spent millions and millions of our tax dollars to go in ONE BIG CIRCLE.

This is also why I think a lot of government officials simply don't want to tackle this issue. It has virtually no practical solutions, and plus whatever action you take you're bound to piss off one group of people and hurt your election results.
 
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This part of my link says it all. What I want to know is if the Arizona government is going to put a stop to this group, or if it is going to turn a blind eye to a swastika wearing group that would, in a heartbeat, fire up the ovens for the Jews again, if given half a chance. Whether or not you believe that Arizona is doing the right thing with its new laws, you certainly don't want scum like these patrolling the border. This is America, dammit!! Send these slimeballs back to Stormfront, where they belong.

Article is here
.

Why are you blaming the state when its the Federal failure that fuels their need for publicity?

Why are you not asking the Feds to do something about them?
 
If its a federal issue then you agree with Obama for sueing Arizona's state action?
 
I'm actually worried for the Neo Nazi's. They're not very intelligent to start with and now they're wandering the deserts looking for illegal immigrants when more likely they'll run into smugglers and get shot from a mile away.

Since you ducked Harry Guerrilla's question about you knowing the criminal records of these guys I'll take it you don't know and you made another baseless accusation.

Thanks for staying predictable.
 
They're not assembling peacefully. They have an objective not a message and that's to patrol the border for Mexicans and other countries immigrants trying to enter. I don't understand why this is tolerated. Its against the law to patrol neighborhoods and intervene in conflicts better handled by the police and it should be against the law to patrol the border looking for a conflict.

These people are NOT like minute men who are simply looking to patrol the border. The minute men's message is a stronger border security. Neo Nazi's message is one of hate.

Do you have any evidence to support your claims or is this more baseless theory from someone incapable of supporting yourself with any facts whatsoever?

No one likes the Nazis but that doesn't give you the right to generalize and make phony allegations without a shred of proof to back up your claims.
 
If its a federal issue then you agree with Obama for sueing Arizona's state action?

Its the fault of the Feds because they haven't done their job making the Neo Nazis their responsibility.

Are you so woefully uninformed that you didn't even know Arizona's law hasn't even gone into enforcement yet?
 
It doesn't have to go into enforcement for it to be sued by the feds.
 
Hi, The Dane -- I did know about that -- saw it a few days ago -- I think it was here on the boards. If he keeps going on that, I'll be such a happy camper!! $3 million in fines isn't much, when you think about it, but it sure sends a message to the border companies that are hiring these people.
 
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/10/us/10enforce.html

Also, deporting them is an absolute nightmare. First of all, you can't just send them all back to Mexico as alot of them aren't from Mexico, they could be from one of a dozen other countries SOUTH of Mexico. Even if you did find out where each and every single one of them came from, who's to say that these countries will accept them? Also, once you do figure out where they are from, and their countries take them, whats to stop them from crossing the border again, and by then the government has already spent millions and millions of our tax dollars to go in ONE BIG CIRCLE.

This is also why I think a lot of government officials simply don't want to tackle this issue. It has virtually no practical solutions, and plus whatever action you take you're bound to piss off one group of people and hurt your election results.

Well... Ya, that does make for a tricky situation... simpler solution, determine what country they are actually from, and use that as the guideline of what to do with them at that point. It's been argued before (for Iraqi's) that if they aren't 'citizens' then they don't qualify for human rights protections... too bad that sets such a dangerous precedent.
 
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