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Immigrant deaths in Arizona desert soaring in July

Clearly the problem is the desert. It is murdering precious human beings. We need to immediately divert the oceans to flood the desert and stop this evil force of nature from taking lives! Who's with me!?

I suppose... we could also genetically engineer humans to be resistant to dehydration at some point... but for now the oceans... yes... the waters. :shock:

Seriously though, if people are willing to risk death to cross a desert on the mere hope that a better life resides on the other side, they must be fleeing some pretty bad conditions.
 
Hatuey said:
See my point? Conservatives/people pushing for the Arizona law don't really care about Mexicans dying crossing the border. Using the fact that a few die to push their agenda is simply dishonest. Now watch Vicky thank his post. ;)
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Look at the phoney compassion here by this guy. If you want to help why dont you give your job to an illegal mexican so he can afford to bring his wife, 8 kids, 4 brothers (with families) & grandma & grandpa across by vehicle so they dont have to walk? Of course they'll need a place to stay so why not at your place? After all it was your ancestors that stole this land from them in the first place right? Of course you wont because you are a fraud.
An argument could just as easily be made that you dont give a damn about American citizens whom are the victims of the crime wave these illegals bring with them, not to mention the loss of job opportunities to citizens. You dont really care about the victims of all this crime do you? Shame on you!!!

I'l make one point here though you cant refute, if you were really that worried about these people then you would be for stopping illegal immigration by sealing the border completly along with making the fines to business's so stiff that they woundnt dare hire them. Would anyone be dying on the border then? Of course not because there would be no incentive to come here. Now even if the Liberal Socialists in this country had there way & legalized every last illegal (without border enforcement) they would still be coming across that border probably even more than they currently are, which would result in even more deaths. So IMO it is your political policies that are killing these people by letting them think its worth walking across the desert to get here.
 
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Okay, you "secure the border" fans. Just how do you intend to do that? It's such a catch phrase. Just exactly how would you do it? What're ya' gunna do with that 2,000 miles?

And PS -- if we were shooting them on sight, they'd still come in. And you know we aren't going to do that.

I don't think this post shows "another reason to enforce the law and stop it." I think it's a perfect illustration of how difficult it's going to be to secure it. These people are desperate. Nothing will stop them. Oh, and if they're dying from heat exhaustion? Don't be surprised that we don't start setting up lemonade stands for 'em. We have a history of making things safer for illegals at dangerous crossings...i.e., that canal in California.
 
Cut off the jobs and they wont come.. it is pretty simple, but it seems the right wing of the US political sphere cant see that. No they focus all their rage against the illegals, usually by stereotyping while giving the private sector a free pass. It is ironic.. the right should see the problem with their views, since it is exactly the same views that the neo nazi white pride freaks have been promoting for decades.. but oh well.

Fine to oblivion and/or take away business licenses from companies who higher illegals and put on huge fines.. like 5 years minimum wage for example, for any private citizen who employs an illegal. That would put enough incentive to stop employing illegals and if that happens, the illegals wont come. It is cheaper to be dirt poor unemployed in Mexico than in the US after all (cost of living).
 
PeteEU said:
Cut off the jobs and they wont come.. it is pretty simple, but it seems the right wing of the US political sphere cant see that. No they focus all their rage against the illegals, usually by stereotyping while giving the private sector a free pass. It is ironic.. the right should see the problem with their views, since it is exactly the same views that the neo nazi white pride freaks have been promoting for decades.. but oh well.

Fine to oblivion and/or take away business licenses from companies who higher illegals and put on huge fines.. like 5 years minimum wage for example, for any private citizen who employs an illegal. That would put enough incentive to stop employing illegals and if that happens, the illegals wont come. It is cheaper to be dirt poor unemployed in Mexico than in the US after all (cost of living).
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People say that and don't realize the type of jobs illegals take. They take jobs that Americans refuse to do, like field work and other manual labor that the pay is terrible.
 
PeteEU said:
Cut off the jobs and they wont come.. it is pretty simple, but it seems the right wing of the US political sphere cant see that. No they focus all their rage against the illegals, usually by stereotyping while giving the private sector a free pass. It is ironic.. the right should see the problem with their views, since it is exactly the same views that the neo nazi white pride freaks have been promoting for decades.. but oh well.
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Right Wing? *Shakin' Head*
 
The_Patriot said:
People say that and don't realize the type of jobs illegals take. They take jobs that Americans refuse to do, like field work and other manual labor that the pay is terrible.
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OH I know fully well what type of jobs the illegals take, but that is not the point. American's refuse to do the jobs because either they are lazy or the wage is too low. Now the first one cant be changed easily but the second one can be changed. But in principle this is a whole other debate.

And it does not change the fact that the these jobs can be done by LEGAL workers at minimum wage, but the companies and private persons exploit the fact that they are illegals to pay them less than minimum wage often and so on. Make the price for getting caught employing an illegal so high, that the companies cant afford doing so, then the illegals will stop coming.
 
PeteEU said:
Cut off the jobs and they wont come.. it is pretty simple, but it seems the right wing of the US political sphere cant see that. No they focus all their rage against the illegals, usually by stereotyping while giving the private sector a free pass. It is ironic.. the right should see the problem with their views, since it is exactly the same views that the neo nazi white pride freaks have been promoting for decades.. but oh well.

Fine to oblivion and/or take away business licenses from companies who higher illegals and put on huge fines.. like 5 years minimum wage for example, for any private citizen who employs an illegal. That would put enough incentive to stop employing illegals and if that happens, the illegals wont come. It is cheaper to be dirt poor unemployed in Mexico than in the US after all (cost of living).
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I agree that cracking down on employers is one part of the solution. Now why in the heck is Obama suing Az over the employer sanction bill passed two years ago?
Supreme Court to Review Arizona Employer Sanctions Law - New America Media

"The U.S. Supreme Court agreed on Monday to review a controversial Arizona statute aimed at imposing severe sanctions on employers who knowingly hire undocumented immigrant workers. This law has already set precedence for similar local legislation being passed in other states across the country.

The Monday hearing was the first time that the highest tribunal in the country considered addressing the constitutionality of a state bill — the Legal Arizona Workers Act (LAWA) — that deals with immigration issues.

LAWA was signed by former Gov. Janet Napolitano, now secretary of the Department of Homeland Security, and took effect on Jan.1, 2008. It was challenged by a coalition of business groups, but it didn't get as much national attention as the passage in April of SB 1070, which will allow law enforcement to arrest and detain undocumented immigrants in Arizona."

It seems evertime a State like Arizona tries do improve the situation to reduce "illegals", this administration steps in as says "No". If the Feds would do the job, the State would not have to step in. This has been building over many adminstrations. It seems Obama just does not get it.

IMO we cannot totally seal our borders. We can take steps to reduce the numbers crossing illegally everyday. More boots on the ground, barriers in certain locations, going after employers, stop rendering assistance to those who cross the desert and get in trouble, etc.

and yes, I agree we need immigration reform to allow for workers in support to certain business that require it. I will take acception to Amercans won't do the work. I for one have worked on farms in my younger days as a field hand. I also worked for a tree service. If that is what you need to feed yourself, get off you axx and get to work. There is no insult to do manual labor jobs.
 
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MaggieD said:
Right Wing? *Shakin' Head*
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Mostly right wing yes. It has always been a core right wing policy to curb immigration, especially of so called undesirables. Time and time again during economic crisis, it is always the right wing of the political sphere that brings up the ugly head of curbing immigration and hitting down hard on illegals. It does not matter what country we are talking about, it is the same thing all over the world. And then there are the far right wing nationalist groups who exploit situations like this, to get more members. There are quite a few neo nazi far right "minutemen" type organisations that are "patrolling" the border after all.

After all you dont see the left wing parties embrace xenophobic policies against illegals and legals as a core part of their program... at least I have yet to see that anywhere in the world. It is always the right.
 
@ Pete -- Neither side wants this "problem" solved because neither side has solved it. There isn't a regular user on any internet forum who doesn't know how to solve the problem. So why do we have one? Because Congress (Dems/Reps alike) doesn't want to solve it. Simple as that. The bigger question we should be asking ourselves is, "Why is that???"
 
jamesrage said:
Considering Obama's version of "reform" is amnesty or some form of it I do not want reform anytime soon. I simply do not trust him to adequately secure the border and crack down on scum who hire illegals.

As for for individuals dying while trespassing into the US I can honestly say that I do not feel sorry for people dying while in the commission of a crime. Would you care if a trespasser was shot? Would you care that someone trying break into your home was shot?
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There is more to blame here than just Obama.... If it wasn't for all the employers who are breaking the law by exploiting the illegals, there wouldn't be any illegals here in the first place.

I think illegals should be deported, but guess what else? I think employers who hire them, out of concern for nothing more than their bottom line, need to be doing hard time.
 
The_Patriot said:
People say that and don't realize the type of jobs illegals take. They take jobs that Americans refuse to do, like field work and other manual labor that the pay is terrible.
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Pullleeeze. The pay is terrible because they can hire pseudo-slaves. If we're willing to pay more for our green beans, there'll be plenty of Americans to take those jobs.
danarhea said:
Guess what else? I think employers who hire them, out of concern for nothing more than their bottom line, need to be doing hard time.
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You and everybody else with half a brain. (No offense meant.) Now....why aren't we doing that? Either side of the aisle?
 
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The_Patriot said:
People say that and don't realize the type of jobs illegals take. They take jobs that Americans refuse to do, like field work and other manual labor that the pay is terrible.
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Really? Here in Texas, they have taken about 2/3 of the construction jobs.
 
MrVicchio said:
My Way News - Immigrant deaths in Arizona desert soaring in July

More reason to make immigration reform happen. More reason to make it harder to be here illegally, to work here... to save their lives.
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Dying in the heat - coming here illegally or legally shouldn't be a death sentence.

I think they should offer aid of some type - not *to* illegals - but *to* anyone who isn't handling the heat, residency unquestioned. A shelter with some type of AC, water. . .something like that.

Our laws and all that aren't actually worth dying for or against.
 
MaggieD said:
@ Pete -- Neither side wants this "problem" solved because neither side has solved it. There isn't a regular user on any internet forum who doesn't know how to solve the problem. So why do we have one? Because Congress (Dems/Reps alike) doesn't want to solve it. Simple as that. The bigger question we should be asking ourselves is, "Why is that???"
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Because they get their money from the very industries that rely on illegal workers..
 
Yes, that EGZAKLY my point. This is not a Right Wing problem. It's a Congress thing. And you hit one of the nails right on the head. Thank you.

There are other nails, in my opinion. They want the voter base; they want a new influx of workers to help fix the Social Security problem; others I can't fathom right now.
 
Its a shame that these deaths do not discourage others from breaking tha law by invading a sovereign nation. Oh well at least they won't end up on the welfare dole.
 
@ Sgt Rock -- There is no way to stop these people at the border. They will keep coming, risking life and limb, until we stop giving them a reason for coming. It is our own fault. Or, I should say, the fault of the legislators that are sworn to protect this country. And, I guess, by DEfault, that's us 'cause we put 'em there.
 
MaggieD said:
@ Sgt Rock -- There is no way to stop these people at the border. They will keep coming, risking life and limb, until we stop giving them a reason for coming. It is our own fault. Or, I should say, the fault of the legislators that are sworn to protect this country. And, I guess, by DEfault, that's us 'cause we put 'em there.
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There is a way to stop the criminal immigrants from invading our country. A dual fence with a land mine enforced no mans land in between the fences. Guard towers with NATIONAL GUARD (novel concept, NG that is) with orders to shoot to kill anyone who makes it through the mine fields. Stepped up Coastguard patrols. This should discourage most would be illegals with criminal intent from attempting to invade our country.

I know you think this sounds like the Iron Curtain but there is a big difference. The commies were attempting to keep thier own people in we are trying to keep invaders out.
 
You could also stop them at the border by making it immpossible to get social services, not allowing their children to attend school, refusing medical care (except for emergencies), jail time and huge fines for companies and their MANAGEMENT for hiring illegals, jail time for being here illegally, fines for renting to illegals and I think that would be a big STOP sighn to many. Why risk your life for such?
 
SgtRock said:
There is a way to stop the criminal immigrants from invading our country. A dual fence with a land mine enforced no mans land in between the fences. Guard towers with NATIONAL GUARD (novel concept, NG that is) with orders to shoot to kill anyone who makes it through the mine fields. Stepped up Coastguard patrols. This should discourage most would be illegals with criminal intent from attempting to invade our country.

I know you think this sounds like the Iron Curtain but there is a big difference. The commies were attempting to keep thier own people in we are trying to keep invaders out.
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You cant afford that. It will cost many many billions of dollars not only to make, but to maintain.
 
SgtRock said:
There is a way to stop the criminal immigrants from invading our country. A dual fence with a land mine enforced no mans land in between the fences. Guard towers with NATIONAL GUARD (novel concept, NG that is) with orders to shoot to kill anyone who makes it through the mine fields.
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Now come up with something our country would actually do. Someone on this thread likened the illegals to people invading your home and said we should shoot them as well. It's not anything like invading your home. If you want to make that comparison at all, it's about walking into your backyard. Twenty-to-life, anyone?

@ Mr. Vicchio -- I agree with you on all counts and again ask, "Why isn't this being done?" There's something in this mix we don't understand.
 
SgtRock said:
Its a shame that these deaths do not discourage others from breaking tha law by invading a sovereign nation. Oh well at least they won't end up on the welfare dole.
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The illegals are not invaders. Industry here in the good ole' USA rolled out the red carpet for them by hiring them, which is against the law. I see plenty of outrage against the illegals, but where in the hell is the outrage against the employers who are breaking the law, which is allowing the illegals to come here in the first place?
 
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