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Thread: Immigrant deaths in Arizona desert soaring in July

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    Re: Immigrant deaths in Arizona desert soaring in July

    Quote Originally Posted by mike2810 View Post
    I agree that cracking down on employers is one part of the solution. Now why in the heck is Obama suing Az over the employer sanction bill passed two years ago?
    Supreme Court to Review Arizona Employer Sanctions Law - New America Media

    "The U.S. Supreme Court agreed on Monday to review a controversial Arizona statute aimed at imposing severe sanctions on employers who knowingly hire undocumented immigrant workers. This law has already set precedence for similar local legislation being passed in other states across the country.

    The Monday hearing was the first time that the highest tribunal in the country considered addressing the constitutionality of a state bill — the Legal Arizona Workers Act (LAWA) — that deals with immigration issues.

    LAWA was signed by former Gov. Janet Napolitano, now secretary of the Department of Homeland Security, and took effect on Jan.1, 2008. It was challenged by a coalition of business groups, but it didn't get as much national attention as the passage in April of SB 1070, which will allow law enforcement to arrest and detain undocumented immigrants in Arizona."

    It seems evertime a State like Arizona tries do improve the situation to reduce "illegals", this administration steps in as says "No". If the Feds would do the job, the State would not have to step in. This has been building over many adminstrations. It seems Obama just does not get it.

    IMO we cannot totally seal our borders. We can take steps to reduce the numbers crossing illegally everyday. More boots on the ground, barriers in certain locations, going after employers, stop rendering assistance to those who cross the desert and get in trouble, etc.

    and yes, I agree we need immigration reform to allow for workers in support to certain business that require it. I will take acception to Amercans won't do the work. I for one have worked on farms in my younger days as a field hand. I also worked for a tree service. If that is what you need to feed yourself, get off you axx and get to work. There is no insult to do manual labor jobs.
    Umm, since when did President Obama become a member of the Supreme Court? Also notice that the law was challenged by business groups, you know, the people who like to HIRE illegals. Since when did business groups become part of the Federal government?
    Last edited by danarhea; 07-18-10 at 02:32 PM.
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    Re: Immigrant deaths in Arizona desert soaring in July

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    Umm, since when did President Obama become a member of the Supreme Court? Also notice that the law was challenged by business groups, you know, the people who like to HIRE illegals. Since when did business groups become part of the Federal government?
    Maybe you misunderstood my post. AZ has a law that can strip business license from those who hire illegals. Obama admistration has challenged the Az law. The SC has agreed to hear the case. Lower federal courts have upheld AZ law. My post was to address the comment that the govt. should go after business that hire illegals. Hence my question, why is Obama admistration
    challenging Az law that does just that, penalizes employers.

    Yes the orginal challenge was by business groups. However, "
    The federal government has asked the Supreme Court to review Arizona's employer-sanctions law, and a decision could have a ripple effect on similar laws across the country as well as on the state's controversial new immigration law.

    Read more: Supreme Court asked to review Arizona employer sanctions law

    I should have used a more clear first link. A little more search shows its the Feds that asked for the SC review. Since Holder works for Obama, my point stands.

    Supreme Court asked to review Arizona employer sanctions law
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    Re: Immigrant deaths in Arizona desert soaring in July

    I'm guessing it's a purely Constitutional issue. I could imagine the Federal government doesn't want to set a precedent that states can decide how to enforce a Federal law. It's bogus, though.
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    Re: Immigrant deaths in Arizona desert soaring in July

    I love the illegal immigration debate because it is giving us all a clear example of how much the government favors business over the welfare of the nation as a whole. There have been $6 million in fines so far for companies that are harboring illegals. 6 measly million, for companies that have annual profits in the tens of billions? For them that is like paying a penny.

    The government will continue to spin it like it's the fault of the individuals, like it's the fault of immigrants for wanting to cross the desert and risk everything in order to live better lives; but actually, the government is highly reluctant to address the root, which is business. NAFTA was about business. It created the inequities that are driving illegals into your country. The government is reluctant to heavily fine corporations that are facilitating employment for illegals.

    I mean, the Obama admin has a more humanitarian perspective on the situation, but it's not like they are really cracking down. The government fines a few companies to set a few examples and to ease public relations, but what is really happening in the grand scheme to those companies? Nothing. The Bush admin behaved the same way. The whole immigration debate rested upon the illegals themselves, and the Minute Men phenomenon at the border. Why were the minute men not equally as outraged at the companies? Where were the massive protests outside of the doors of those corporate headquarters?

    The essence of this debate is stooped up to its eyeballs in hypocrisy. If you want to address the source, then you go to the source: the businesses. You are never going to be able to fully secure a desert border without investing huge amounts of money and resources. It is far, far simpler to target business. But that is something the government never wants to do.

    Business reigns supreme.

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    Re: Immigrant deaths in Arizona desert soaring in July

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    The illegals are not invaders. Industry here in the good ole' USA rolled out the red carpet for them by hiring them, which is against the law. I see plenty of outrage against the illegals, but where in the hell is the outrage against the employers who are breaking the law, which is allowing the illegals to come here in the first place?
    I do not think anyone us suggesting that that nothing be done about the scum who hire illegals. I have suggested many times that they should be treated no different than any other criminal who profits and or uses their funds for illegal activities by making them subject to prison time and assets seizure forfeiture laws just like drug dealers,mobsters and other criminals are. When it comes to illegal immigration I see that it takes two to tango, one is a trespasser/invader and as you said the other is rolling out the red carpet for the invader\trespasser. Both should be deterred and both should be punished when caught. The fact that those hire illegals are American citizens helping to make the problem worse should receive a harsher punishment.
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    Re: Immigrant deaths in Arizona desert soaring in July

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    I'm guessing it's a purely Constitutional issue. I could imagine the Federal government doesn't want to set a precedent that states can decide how to enforce a Federal law. It's bogus, though.
    Well, actually, I have just got done reading the Arizona law, and it's scope is very narrow. It says that businesses in Arizona that knowingly hire illegals can have their licenses to do business stripped from them. In that context, there is nothing unconstitutional about the Arizona law. Unlike the other law, which can only be enforced by profiling, this law is very specific, and is a good one. Furthermore, I believe that the Arizona law, in regard to employment of illegals, can be used as a template by other states, if they wish to do the same. There is no profiling here either, since the criminal employers would be caught through standard "audits". However, there is a "gotcha" here, in that "knowingly" is very subjective, and could provide ammunition to defense attorneys. But if they don't provide proof that they I-9'd an employee before he or she started work there, that shows the motive. But, since the I-9 is a Federal form, things could get a little sticky in regard to jurisdiction.

    Other than that, I like it, and I think it will pass muster in the courts.

    In regard to crossing itself, troops on the border would stop that.
    Last edited by danarhea; 07-18-10 at 05:11 PM.
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    Re: Immigrant deaths in Arizona desert soaring in July

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    OH I know fully well what type of jobs the illegals take, but that is not the point. American's refuse to do the jobs because either they are lazy or the wage is too low. Now the first one cant be changed easily but the second one can be changed. But in principle this is a whole other debate.

    And it does not change the fact that the these jobs can be done by LEGAL workers at minimum wage, but the companies and private persons exploit the fact that they are illegals to pay them less than minimum wage often and so on. Make the price for getting caught employing an illegal so high, that the companies cant afford doing so, then the illegals will stop coming.
    The problem with the minimum wage is that it's a false floor on the value of labor which sets a minimum on prices of goods. Since the prices of goods and the minimum wage combined make it impossible to live off of. Every time the minimum wage went up so did the prices of goods. It didn't help that inflation, the hidden tax on the poor and middle class, also played a major role in the pricing of goods.

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Pullleeeze. The pay is terrible because they can hire pseudo-slaves. If we're willing to pay more for our green beans, there'll be plenty of Americans to take those jobs.

    You and everybody else with half a brain. (No offense meant.) Now....why aren't we doing that? Either side of the aisle?
    I can agree with that.

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    Really? Here in Texas, they have taken about 2/3 of the construction jobs.
    The reason being is that most Americans do not want to work in the high heat of Texas or anywhere else. Employers need to find a source of labor that will be willing to work in those conditions.
    Last edited by The_Patriot; 07-18-10 at 05:20 PM.

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    Re: Immigrant deaths in Arizona desert soaring in July

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    The illegals are not invaders. Industry here in the good ole' USA rolled out the red carpet for them by hiring them, which is against the law. I see plenty of outrage against the illegals, but where in the hell is the outrage against the employers who are breaking the law, which is allowing the illegals to come here in the first place?
    Have you ever seen the show called Bait Car?

    A car is left on the street with the keys in it and if somebody steals it they get arrested.

    What you just said is that the police are responsible for the theft for leaving the keys in the car and the criminal that stole the car has no responsibility in the transaction.

    How does that make any sense?

    You think business is allowing the illegals to come to the US?

    How do you figure that?

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    Re: Immigrant deaths in Arizona desert soaring in July

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Patriot View Post
    The reason being is that most Americans do not want to work in the high heat of Texas or anywhere else. Employers need to find a source of labor that will be willing to work in those conditions.
    Do you really think Americans are that lazy to not want to work because it is too hot? That is laughable.

    I challenge you to go try to hire any day workers. They do not work for peanuts.

    They are not coming over the border to work for little money. They know the construction jobs are out there that have a high pay rate, and yes those are jobs that unemployeed americans can and want to do.

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    Re: Immigrant deaths in Arizona desert soaring in July

    Quote Originally Posted by mike2810 View Post
    Maybe you misunderstood my post. AZ has a law that can strip business license from those who hire illegals. Obama admistration has challenged the Az law. The SC has agreed to hear the case. Lower federal courts have upheld AZ law. My post was to address the comment that the govt. should go after business that hire illegals. Hence my question, why is Obama admistration
    challenging Az law that does just that, penalizes employers.

    Yes the orginal challenge was by business groups. However, "
    The federal government has asked the Supreme Court to review Arizona's employer-sanctions law, and a decision could have a ripple effect on similar laws across the country as well as on the state's controversial new immigration law.

    Read more: Supreme Court asked to review Arizona employer sanctions law

    I should have used a more clear first link. A little more search shows its the Feds that asked for the SC review. Since Holder works for Obama, my point stands.

    Supreme Court asked to review Arizona employer sanctions law
    Since AB 1070 make it illegal for anyone who's in the United States illegally to be in Arizona, the law allowing Arizona to strip businesses of their license if they hire illegals has a proper background.

    So far, Arizona is the American state, the United States government is the anti-American government.

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