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Thread: Changing Stance, Administration Now Defends Insurance Mandate as a Tax

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    Re: Changing Stance, Administration Now Defends Insurance Mandate as a Tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    No, it will be completely impossible for the vast majority of low income families to even consider purchasing health insurance. Almost no families will be able to afford an extra $840. a month.

    Millions will be forced to pay Obama's tax penalty which would buy several months of groceries or pay a months rent. And.... the medical system will still be paying for millions of patients with no health insurance.

    The GOP wouldn't cooperate because the Dems would not listen to any of their proposals. It was the Dem's way or nothing. The GOP wisely decided they didn't want their fingerprints on this pig.

    What will have been gained ????
    At least 80 GOP amendments made the bill, and supposedly the actual number is around 160. (GOP allegedly blocked the release of the full list)

    Families below the poverty line will be eligible for medicaid. Low income families just above the poverty line will be eligible for some subsidies, but if they still can't afford it they'll be exempt from the tax penalty.
    Those who do pay the tax penalty will have chipped in a few bucks towards their health care when they go to the ER while uninsured.

    The situation is not fixed, but it is improved.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Changing Stance, Administration Now Defends Insurance Mandate as a Tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    At least 80 GOP amendments made the bill, and supposedly the actual number is around 160. (GOP allegedly blocked the release of the full list)

    Families below the poverty line will be eligible for medicaid. Low income families just above the poverty line will be eligible for some subsidies, but if they still can't afford it they'll be exempt from the tax penalty.
    Those who do pay the tax penalty will have chipped in a few bucks towards their health care when they go to the ER while uninsured.

    The situation is not fixed, but it is improved.
    You still choose to ignore the very real numbers I posted above..... What about the poor families of four making just over $32,000. ???? They are SOL. I guess they'll be left hoping for change... right ??

    How can a family living paycheck to paycheck pay for health insurance and wait for up to a year for their tax credit ???

    As far as Republican amendments, not a single one was significant or changed the bill in any meaningful way. The Dems wouldn't allow it.

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





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    Re: Changing Stance, Administration Now Defends Insurance Mandate as a Tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    You still choose to ignore the very real numbers I posted above..... What about the poor families of four making just over $32,000. ???? They are SOL. I guess they'll be left hoping for change... right ??

    How can a family living paycheck to paycheck pay for health insurance and wait for up to a year for their tax credit ???

    As far as Republican amendments, not a single one was significant or changed the bill in any meaningful way. The Dems wouldn't allow it.
    Plenty were significant. If the GOP had been willing to put up some votes they might have gotten more substantial changes. You can't expect to get everything you want but have the other guy vote it in for you. Doesn't work that way, they're the minority party.
    The family of four making $32000 won't have to pay the tax penalty, so they at the least would not be worse off than they are now. They are eligible for the subsidy if they can make it work. Premiums are also capped as % of income.
    HR3200 would have done more to address this income gap, but that bill was just too damned liberal apparently. The big scary Public Option, which hardly anyone would have even been eligible to enroll in, would have run those poor insurance companies out of business, if you ask the GOP anyway.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Changing Stance, Administration Now Defends Insurance Mandate as a Tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Plenty were significant. If the GOP had been willing to put up some votes they might have gotten more substantial changes. You can't expect to get everything you want but have the other guy vote it in for you. Doesn't work that way, they're the minority party.
    The family of four making $32000 won't have to pay the tax penalty, so they at the least would not be worse off than they are now. They are eligible for the subsidy if they can make it work. Premiums are also capped as % of income.
    HR3200 would have done more to address this income gap, but that bill was just too damned liberal apparently. The big scary Public Option, which hardly anyone would have even been eligible to enroll in, would have run those poor insurance companies out of business, if you ask the GOP anyway.
    You are continuing to ignore the real numbers I posted. Forget the damn tax penalty, I never said they would have to pay it.

    Just answer this question.... how will this family be able to afford health insurance, EVEN with the subsidy????? Health insurance will cost them over $10,000 a year. They have to pay that amount then wait a year for a tax rebate. Their total out-of-pocket expenses will be over $5,000, EVEN with the subsidy !!!!

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





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    Re: Changing Stance, Administration Now Defends Insurance Mandate as a Tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    You mean uninsured people will have to start paying for some of the health care they receive in the emergency room? Dang. That's terrible.

    I'm also not sure I'd describe $695/year for the uninsured as "big" or "fat" or "everyone."

    But yes, there's a $695 tax penalty for not carrying insurance. Is this a surprise to you? Did you not pay any attention at all during the last 18 months?
    WOW! Totally missing the point. (on purpose, he-he)

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    Re: Changing Stance, Administration Now Defends Insurance Mandate as a Tax

    Quote Originally Posted by The Dane View Post
    These are from your own article. Obama will win this battle in court easily.





    You should have read more carefully over your article and realized that this had nothing to do with Obama flip flopping over whether or not it was a tax, rather that Obama has found a perfectly viable legal argument for showing that the Constitution was perfectly fine with forcing people to pay for health insurance.

    You stepped in your own bear trap. And I could care less about what Obama flip flopped about he's a politican and both sides of the isle have been doing that since day one.



    Its a stupid idea for the tea parties to try and make the notion that Obama is violating the constitution. He's a constitutional scholar and former constitutional professor along with a brilliant lawyer who deeply respects the document and will wipe the floor with anyone trying to use it as leverage over his administration.
    DOUBLE WOW!! Boy, you Obama faithful can really do a mean tap dance.

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    Re: Changing Stance, Administration Now Defends Insurance Mandate as a Tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    You are continuing to ignore the real numbers I posted. Forget the damn tax penalty, I never said they would have to pay it.

    Just answer this question.... how will this family be able to afford health insurance, EVEN with the subsidy????? Health insurance will cost them over $10,000 a year. They have to pay that amount then wait a year for a tax rebate. Their total out-of-pocket expenses will be over $5,000, EVEN with the subsidy !!!!
    You seem to be ignoring the fact that the premiums are capped as a % of income. With an income of $32000 your premiums wont be $10,000. You'll have to make nearly six figures to pay that much in premiums if you're a family of four.

    Also, some help is better than no help. That family you're talking about can't afford health insurance now.

    Canada's system is better in my opinion.
    Last edited by Deuce; 07-20-10 at 04:59 PM.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Changing Stance, Administration Now Defends Insurance Mandate as a Tax

    Quote Originally Posted by The Dane View Post
    Its not a product or service it promotes the general welfare of people in the country. Forcing people to purchase insurance lowers the cost of insurance for everyone. Forcing people to pay for insurance and have free check ups prevents many emergency room visits that put a strain on the healthcare industry and raises the prices of insurance for people.

    You're not going to beat Obama at his own game. Constitutional law is his domain.
    Do you get a thrill up your leg every time you hear him speak?

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    Re: Changing Stance, Administration Now Defends Insurance Mandate as a Tax

    Forget about the tax label for a second. Im wondering how many people right here in our merry little band of bloggers are low income wage earners that choose not to get insurance because they see themselves as young, healthy, and not really in need of health care yet. You do realize that that choice will be stripped from you...right? You will now be FORCED to buy insurance for health care that you may or may not use for 1-3-5-maybe 10 years. or more. And while its not a position I recommend I know several people in that group...conservatives and liberals alike...

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    Re: Changing Stance, Administration Now Defends Insurance Mandate as a Tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    You seem to be ignoring the fact that the premiums are capped as a % of income. With an income of $32000 your premiums wont be $10,000. You'll have to make nearly six figures to pay that much in premiums if you're a family of four.

    Also, some help is better than no help. That family you're talking about can't afford health insurance now.

    Canada's system is better in my opinion.
    Do I have to take you by the hand and lead you to the water trough ?????

    The family's insurance premium will be: $10,108.
    Their share of the premium will be: $1,028.
    The government subsidy will be: $9,081.
    Their maximum out-of-pocket expense will be (not including the premium): $4,167.

    Total yearly out-of-pocket costs (max): $5,195.

    The $9,081. government subsidy is a tax credit. That means they only get the money back (a percentage of it) when they file income tax the next year. That means they have to pay the monthly premiums out of their budget, which will be next to impossible for a family with that much annual income.

    And no, they won't be better off, they'll be MUCH worse off. This plan is not any help, it's like a lead weight thrown to a drowning man.

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





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