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Thread: Catholics angry as church puts female ordination on par with sex abuse

  1. #71
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    Re: Catholics angry as church puts female ordination on par with sex abuse

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    I will not raise my daughters to think that they are not fully and completely equal in the eyes of their God.
    Your personal animosity toward the Church aside, you couldn't be more incorrect about the above statement. If we do not allow anger to cloud our understanding of the issue, then it becomes clear that we are not talking about the "equality" of women, which the Church unequivocally recognizes. The Catholic Church does not "think that women are not fully and completely equal," far from it. A priest is not any more or less "equal" in the eyes of God, merely a holder of a particular sacramental position. The prohibition against women is just a question of liturgical tradition, not based on any idea of spiritual inferiority. At the end of the day, all people, clergy and laity, men and women, are equally sinners in the eyes of God, and equally loved by God.
    Last edited by Guy Incognito; 07-16-10 at 10:34 AM.

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    Re: Catholics angry as church puts female ordination on par with sex abuse

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    I vehemently disagree on this.

    I'm not a Catholic, but my entire family is Catholic. My wife and her family are also Catholics. My wife currently wishes to baptize and raise our children as Catholics.
    You made the choice to marry a Roman Catholic with the knowledge, presumably, that as a Catholic, your wife is obligated to raise her children Catholic. My wife is Buddhist, and this is something we talked about in depth at the pre-Cana conference we were required to attend prior to marriage in the Church. You knew this, yet you still chose to marry her. So, while you are not Catholic and as such are not obligated to believe what our Church teaches us through the guidence of the Holy Spirit, but if you wife wishes to remain a communicant Catholic, then she is required to follow the teachings of the Church, whether you agree with them or not.
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    Re: Catholics angry as church puts female ordination on par with sex abuse

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    The Catholic Church does not "think that women are not fully and completely equal," far from it. A priest is not any more or less "equal" in the eyes of God, merely a holder of a particular sacramental position. The prohibition against women is just a question of liturgical tradition, not based on any idea of spiritual inferiority. At the end of the day, all people, clergy and laity, men and women, are equally sinners in the eyes of God, and equally loved by God.
    That may be true....but perception is reality, yes? There is certainly history of discrimination of women in the church, taken from scripture:
    "But I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of a woman is her husband, and the head of Christ is God. Any man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head, but any woman who prays or prophesies with her head unveiled dishonors her headit is the same as if her head were shaven. For if a woman will not veil herself, then she should cut off her hair; but if it is disgraceful for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her wear a veil.
    "For a man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man. (For man was not made from woman, but woman from man. Neither was man created for woman, but woman for man.) That is why a woman ought to have a veil on her head, because of the angels....If any one is disposed to be contentious, we recognize no other practice, nor do the churches of God." (1 Corinthians 11:3-10,16)
    This is the scripture from which came the tradition of women wearing a headcovering in church. I don't they're required to any more.

    I've never quoted scripture on a forum before....just in case you think I'm thumpin'.
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    Re: Catholics angry as church puts female ordination on par with sex abuse

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Until the Pope has a conversation with God that changes the rule that only men can be priests, this is blasphemy. On par with pedophile prists...whom the Catholic church, as a whole, covered up for forever. Watch for the news alert!!

    Ya' know all those people that went to hell for eating meat on a Friday and not getting to confession before they died? Well, this is kinda' like the same thing.

    Give me a freakin' break.
    i think women should be allowed to be ordained. however, it's up to the catholic church, not me. that's part of the reason why i changed churches. god will sort it all out, i think.

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    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


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    Re: Catholics angry as church puts female ordination on par with sex abuse

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    It's a Catholic matter, strictly internal to that church and having no effect outside of those who are voluntarily part of it, and I'm not Catholic.... so I don't much care.
    Agreed.

    So just to change the subject just a tad, why is gay marriage such a big deal then? Is it not supposed to be at the discretion of the church/religion? Aboslutely, yet people are rabid on their opinions... even the non-religious. Makes me shake my head.
    No men are anywhere, and Im allowed to go in, because Im the owner of the pageant and therefore Im inspecting it, Trump said... Is everyone OK? You know, theyre standing there with no clothes. Is everybody OK? And you see these incredible looking women, and so I sort of get away with things like that.

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    Re: Catholics angry as church puts female ordination on par with sex abuse

    They're just cementing the fact that they prefer choir boys to women. We all knew that already.

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    Re: Catholics angry as church puts female ordination on par with sex abuse

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    The Catholic Church does not "think that women are not fully and completely equal," far from it. A priest is not any more or less "equal" in the eyes of God, merely a holder of a particular sacramental position. The prohibition against women is just a question of liturgical tradition, not based on any idea of spiritual inferiority. At the end of the day, all people, clergy and laity, men and women, are equally sinners in the eyes of God, and equally loved by God.
    Are the positions which women are allowed to fill in the Church hierarchy equal in either spiritual or secular authority to the positions which may be filled by men? If not, then women are held to be subservient-- if not outright inferior-- to men and any statements about their supposed equality are empty and meaningless. Just because something is a matter of tradition does not mean that it is not discriminatory.

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    Re: Catholics angry as church puts female ordination on par with sex abuse

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    You made the choice to marry a Roman Catholic with the knowledge, presumably, that as a Catholic, your wife is obligated to raise her children Catholic.
    She also married him with the knowledge that he was not Catholic and that he held deep reservations about Catholic doctrine. Is he not obligated, morally, to raise his children in the fashion he believes best?

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    Re: Catholics angry as church puts female ordination on par with sex abuse

    Quote Originally Posted by Middleground View Post
    So just to change the subject just a tad, why is gay marriage such a big deal then? Is it not supposed to be at the discretion of the church/religion? Aboslutely, yet people are rabid on their opinions... even the non-religious. Makes me shake my head.
    There is marriage in the eyes of the Church and marriage in the eyes of the law. The former may only matter to members of the same Church, but the law applies to all of us and we all have an equal stake in it.

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    Re: Catholics angry as church puts female ordination on par with sex abuse

    Quote Originally Posted by Korimyr the Rat View Post
    Wasn't referring to you specifically. I'm referring to Catholics who disagree with the Church's stance on moral issues. If they believe that the Church is morally wrong, that it holds false and harmful beliefs, what possible value could still belonging to the Church hold for them? If the Church is wrong, how can it lead them to salvation?
    You're a non-religious person, right?

    A belief in God is a matter of faith, supported by fact. For that reason, the no-God squad cannot convince a believer that there is no God because, they can't speak the language.

    For the same reason, no one is going to convince YOU that there is a God, because you doesn't understand the language of faith. It is bs to you.

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